Live data from Hacker News

Meditation and the Unconscious

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

71–80 of 122 posts

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#71

I heard one of these "Guru's" once say in response to allegations of meditation as brainwashing: "If the brain is dirty, it needs to be washed."

This is true on an important level, but also dangerous as sibling comments point out. There's no panacea for that tension, only the particular choices made and risks taken. Do you trust a particular "doctor", or will you take your chances with the "disease"?

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#72
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

Yeah in the vipassana tradition check out 'Mahasi style noting'. In Zen, look up 'do nothing' or 'just sitting' - I don't know the traditional language. Shinzen Young has really good content on youtube IMO. Focusing on a single point is called 'anapana' in the vipassana tradition and is used as a way to calm the mind - like sharpening a knife - before moving on the the juicier stuff. It's sort of paradoxical but by g…

Anapana(sati) is a specific kind of onepointedness exercise on following the breath; there are many, many more. (Literally, āna is inbreath, āpāna is outbreath, sati is 'remembering of'). What the (Goenka) Vipassana tradition teaches as Anapanasati is an overly specific extrapolated reading not supported by the Anapanasati Sutta itself. Scholar/monk Bhikku Analayo has published on this topic extensively. Many others have actually. The sutta itself is so vague that you can interpret it in any number of ways. Thai Forest Bhikku Buddhadasa even managed to fit Pranayama-like active breathing into his teaching of this sutta.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#73

I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that a strategy consisting of closing one’s eyes when facing conflicts, in escaping from problems rather than solving them, is perhaps a suboptimal strategy. In Dzogchen meditation (which is his main practice), one does not close one's eyes or always sit in a specia…

What is a good resource for descriptions of some Dzogchen meditation practices?

https://www.amazon.com/Our-Pristine-Mind-Practical-Unconditi...

^- pretty good for a Western audience. He thought pretty carefully about the vocabulary, and mostly just presents pretty basic Dzogchen meditation.

Overall, i really like: https://wakingup.com/ by Sam Harris, and would probably recommend it more than resources on Dzogchen meditation. He does not teach Dzogchen meditation, per se, although he seems to credit a Dzogchen master (Tulku Urgyen) as his largest spiritual influence. He definitely has a practical Western, non-religious instructional method and Dzogchen influenced and compatible values and views. (Can't separate life and practice, importance of seeing through the subject-object split).

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#75
We are made of molecules and our thoughts are simply chemical reactions. The biological basis for the mind and thoughts are not well understood today. Meditation is a time-tested way to influence our body's chemistry in ways that discourage agitation, reduce anxiety and increase clarity. Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life.

Meditating for long hours is serious business and should be compared to pro-sports (in terms of commitment, training and potential injury). You wouldn't train like an athlete just to stay healthy, similarly you shouldn't meditate like its the end of the world.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#76
post #49

I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that a strategy consisting of closing one’s eyes when facing conflicts, in escaping from problems rather than solving them, is perhaps a suboptimal strategy. In Dzogchen meditation (which is his main practice), one does not close one's eyes or always sit in a specia…

Closing one's eyes can be very helpful for becoming conscious of subtle things, especially for those who, like me, are hyperliterate screen fiends. Sitting with good posture in a dark room also really helps. An isolation tank is good too, I have heard. But none are necessary. Just good tools when applied properly. And sometimes it's best to go for a walk, think it through, or sit for a while. Other times it's best to…

When I forget something I quickly close my eyes and clear my mind, take a deep and slow breath and the idea usually emerges again before exhaling. It takes 2-5 seconds and I will continue with my mind busy. Not sure if that's a known meditation technique, but it's the most useful I've found to get back on track.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a good resource for descriptions of some Dzogchen meditation practices?

https://www.amazon.com/Our-Pristine-Mind-Practical-Unconditi... ^- pretty good for a Western audience. He thought pretty carefully about the vocabulary, and mostly just presents pretty basic Dzogchen meditation. Overall, i really like: https://wakingup.com/ by Sam Harris, and would probably recommend it more than resources on Dzogchen meditation. He does not teach Dzogchen meditation, per se, although he seems to cre…

His guided meditations are also good. I’ve listen to them hundreds of times.

9 minutes: https://youtu.be/tw7XBKhZJh4

26 minutes: https://youtu.be/CN-_zzHpcdM

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#78
I don't want to pretend that the way I do meditation and yoga is the right way or it's going to work for someone else. But I think they should try some of it because it might work for them but it also might not because everyone's different. At the same time I don't want other people to pretend that the way they do meditation or yoga is going to work for me or is the right way. But it might work, but it also might not... because everyone's different.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meditation is a tool that cuts both ways. It must be used, like any tool, with respect and careful practice. The Buddha analogized it to a poisonous viper in the wrong hands. I'll give you one example from my own practice. When I learned the Mahasi style of vipassana (mindfulness) meditation, which has you note sense objects as they arise, I noted everything , including conversation. I noted "hearing, hearing, hearin…

Mahasi noting is the most meticulous practice I've ever done. It's easy to do wrong and should be done with a trained teacher. There are Mahasi centers that offer month long retreats which are worth exploring (at least when the pandemic is done). The first time I did a noting type practice (way before doing the Mahasi style of noting) I became nearly instantly depressed and disassociated. Noting is, for me, a very ag…

I stand by this recommendation: if anyone reading this is near the San Jose area I can highly recommend the Tathagata Meditation Center, where I first learned the technique. It's still closed due to Omicron but hopefully not for long.
Post reply on HN