Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)

> Hmm, isn't that what I said? They can treat people with a characteristic more favourably, but they can't exclude people without that characteristic from the start.

How would one even begin to prove the difference? This seems like some sort of mental gymnastic to explain away well meaning discrimination. If I had a thing against men, I'd take their applications, maybe give a few of them interviews for the sake of plausible deniability without a plan to actually hire them. And fortunately for me, society is callously indifferent to men in general unless they are part of a protected class.

> Does region or state within the USA matter?

No, this is covered by Federal law.

> If this is illegal then what's the right way to handle this?

This is incontrovertibly a direct and intentional violation of Title VII. Call the EOC immediately and get it on record that you have informed them of this. Otherwise you are in danger of being seen as an accomplice or otherwise complicit—even if you are not involved directly at implementing the illegal policy. Intentional violations of Title VII open up the possibility of punitive damages in any suit brought by any man who believes that he has been discriminated against. You can be named as a defendant. Protect yourself now.

Obviously, this is also deeply immoral.

I'm studying statistics just at the moment, and for anyone who is curious and has an open mind, the most likely (in a Bayesian sense) reason that the OP has posted this comment is because they do not have access to a single female Senior Software Engineer who they feel meet their requirements. (This is more likely than an alternative explanation such as that the best candidate for the position OP wishes to fill is female, but OP refuses to hire a female.)

For anyone who is curious and has an open mind, since women are half of the population and attain a large number of degrees (as opposed to many decades ago when they were not allowed in education at all), why does OP not have access to female candidates OP feeels meets their requirements?

Since I am studying statistics, I looked up the answer in a lecture about women, collected in a book called the Past, Present, and Future of Statistical Science[1]

There are interesting comments about sexism within the science of statistics, for example:

Thwarted employment search after college Having discarded high school and college teaching, actuarial science, and medicine, I sought employment after college graduation in 1960. I was aware of only two methods to find a job: look in the newspapers’ “Help Wanted” sections and talk with employers at job fairs on campus. The newspaper route proved fruitless. Younger readers may not be aware that newspapers had separate “Help Wanted Female” and “Help Wanted Male” sections until the late 1960s or early 1970s when such practice eventually was ruled to be illegal sex discrimination. In 1960 advertised positions using math skills and interest were in “Help Wanted Male,” and I assumed that it would be futile to apply. Job interviews on campus with employers played out similarly; all positions were segregated by gender and all technical positions were for males. One vignette, among many, illustrates the employment culture for women in the US in 1960. When I registered for an interview on campus with IBM, I was required to take a math aptitude test. The IBM interviewer commented that he had never seen such a high score from any applicant and offered me either a secretarial or an entry sales position. I countered that I was interested in their advertised technical positions that required a math background, especially given my score on their math aptitude test, but he simply said that those positions were for males. End of conversation.

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Clearly, this process explains why OP does not have access to female applicants he feels are qualified. Perhaps OP is judging the history of candidates and applicants, but many other people judged their gender in the past when excluding them.

What should OP do? Of course, OP can't force others who excluded women from going back in history and including them instead. Is there anything OP can do now to try to rectify the injustice?

I think that one thing that OP could potentially do is follow the process outlined in the company. He could hire a woman for the role.

I think it is the right thing to do in OP's situation and given the history of the industry.

[1] if you search for this title on Google one of the top results is the full PDF so I think it's okay to post it here: https://higherlogicdownload.s3.amazonaws.com/AMSTAT/71a758c7...

I think DEI needs to be tackled at the fundamental level. Improving minority conditions, education opportunities, etc. Top-down approach of DEI is creating more problems than solving. Progressives love to make fun of Trickle down economics, but they turn a blind eye to Trickle down DEI practices which create a toxic work environment ironically.

Ah, the good 'ol "if we don't leave a paper trail they can't prove we broke the law" technique.