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How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

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191–200 of 208 posts

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#191
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a shame if this e-ink display that is advertised as "natural" induces more epileptic events than "artificial" light-emitting panels.

I don't think there's a worry about epileptic events with the short flash sequences of e-ink. I'm not a neurologist, but I think you need a reasonably long sequence of continued flashing to trigger an event.

In fact, photosensitivity is relatively rare even among people with diagnosed epilepsy.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#192

This is second hand info, so sorry if it's totally wrong, I'll edit this: E-ink tech is great, but patents and other paper-limitations are slowing down developments of cheap e-ink devices devices, and e-ink will become "great again", when patents expire. I personally see many, many usecases of e-ink all around me, but the prices are way too high for anything that is not either really small or a repurposed old existin…

Yeah, I'd love a mechanical keyboard where each individual keycap was its own E-ink display. This would let you change layouts on the fly and have it reflected on the keys.

I tried a customisation of a keyboard with per-key RGB LEDs, which would light up the key if it was defined on that layer.

As neat as it sounded, I don't think it was very useful.

Once you're use to your custom keyboard layers, you don't really look down at the keyboard.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#193
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of evidence are you looking for? Normally, the person making a claim or allegation supplies some evidence. You know like if I accused Microsoft of using patents for holding back operating system development, then you as presumably a software expert would rightly ask me for evidence. Is my point somehow unclear? Commenters on HN repeatedly make this claim and if you look at my comment history, each time I…

So you are looking for active suppression. Aka law suits? You deny a general chilling effect that patents have on the market overall? That people will, companies, and insterors will simply avoid patent encumbered technology You simply refuse to acknowledge that generally accepted reality //Sidenote. Stop asking me and others to look through your comment history. I am not going to do that. Make your points here and no…

> You deny a general chilling effect that patents have on the market overall? That people will, companies, and insterors will simply avoid patent encumbered technology

So I can just simply say Microsoft has patents and therefore operating systems are not progressing because of that? You realize that's what you're claiming.

> You simply refuse to acknowledge that generally accepted reality

Your reality doesn't match mine. I work in the display industry.

> Stop asking me and others to look through your comment history.

I'm not going to spend my time educating you repeatedly.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say the Boox Note app is unusable? It works well in my experience, it can sync automatically to Dropbox and I can sync notebooks between my two Boox devices. The only thing that sucks is the text recognition IMO. But it's got templates, layers, different stroke types down. Having tried the Onenote mode it's a bit of a hack and doesn't feel great to use.

> Why do you say the Boox Note app is unusable? It glitches more than I can list within the comment length limit. The highlights are: - Glitchy panning and zooming (they're extremely glitchy by themselves and can't be done together) - Ineffective palm rejection. No matter whether with or without a sleeve between hand and display, it always wants to zoom or pan, which takes forever to settle down. I am aware of the to…

I guess I never noticed his because I never zoom or pan notebooks or change the canvas size? I just treat it as a notebook with a page the size of screen. Panning and zooming is something to be avoided on eInk IMO. I didn't even notice the canvas size option. I haven't had any palm zooms or pans just the occasional taps of the back button and I think that has more to do with the fact I'm left handed.

Stroke eraser also works fine. Touch a stroke and the stroke erases. A stroke is 1 line drawn continously, if you lift the pen the stroke ends. Works exactly how I'd expect. It also has a regular eraser and an area eraser that also work fine? Trying Squid for the first time in years I'm not sure what the fuck they are calling a stroke eraser there. I even double checked and it's just as retarded on an LCD tablet. Why would I want a stroke eraser to erase more than the 1 stroke it touched?

I've taken a lot of class notes on the thing and my Note Air and really other than the occasional accidental back outs haven't had the problems you describe. I don't even turn off touch. Besides the bad text recognition I think the Boox Note app works well.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#195
post #20

Every time an E Ink article is posted the patent defeatism is inevitable. I’m curious if there are other techniques to implement reflective(?) displays being explored that wouldn’t fall within the scope of E Ink’s defensible moat, or, if their parents are simply so broad as to stifle most hopes of accessible solutions and broader consumer/professional adoption. Frankly, I’m quite sick of straining my eyes and circadi…

Yes there is. Sharp has their memory-in-pixel LCDs which are reflective and have less power consumption than traditional LCDs for some tasks. They've been used in stuff like the Pebble watches and the current Garmin Fenix line. I think a few of their denshi note devices have also used them. I don't think they make them in sizes big enough for stuff like monitors though.

The contrast on these screens is so low, I'd love to get little e-ink screens on the sports watches. Right now, especially in mixed-sunlight dappled forest kind of backgrounds, you really need to take a hard look at the screen to read anything, which isn't safe if you are trail running or mountain biking or something similar.

Please watch makers, put a little eink-style screen on a watch! Even if it looks like 1st Generation Kindle screens, and is only black/white, it will still be an upgrade!

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#196
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are looking for active suppression. Aka law suits? You deny a general chilling effect that patents have on the market overall? That people will, companies, and insterors will simply avoid patent encumbered technology You simply refuse to acknowledge that generally accepted reality //Sidenote. Stop asking me and others to look through your comment history. I am not going to do that. Make your points here and no…

> You deny a general chilling effect that patents have on the market overall? That people will, companies, and insterors will simply avoid patent encumbered technology So I can just simply say Microsoft has patents and therefore operating systems are not progressing because of that? You realize that's what you're claiming. > You simply refuse to acknowledge that generally accepted reality Your reality doesn't match m…

>>So I can just simply say Microsoft has patents and therefore operating systems are not progressing because of that? You realize that's what you're claiming.

In part yes... Look at the suppression of UNIX do to SCO.. I mean hell this is recorded history. I am honestly surprised I need to even debate this. SCO effectively killed Unix, and harmed Linux and BSD

Software patents have a long history of suppression innovation in software

>Your reality doesn't match mine. I work in the display industry.

This new age of dueling realities is a false. There is only one reality, and mine is based on recorded historical fact, your is based on personal experience and anecdote

Mine is actual reality, yours is a belief

>I'm not going to spend my time educating you repeatedly.

Nor am I

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#197
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the current lifespan? My original Kindle is still working just fine.

Don't you find the low-resolution and the low-contrast of the first generation panels annoying?

No, since I've upped the boldness since day 1 lol. I never noticed it being "low resolution".

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#198

The article misses a significant device: Onyx Nova 3. The major difference between its prior color offering (poke 2) is the integration of a Wacom layer that makes this very good for note taking. The other hardware and software improvements appear to be incremental. Of particular note with all Onyx readers is that they run Android, opening up the ecosystem of the Play store and particularly your note-taking app of ch…

Onyx makes the best ereader hardware and the worst software. I really wish they hadn't gone with android (they used to have a linux firmware and supplied SDK), since like most android IoT devices (though this isn't one) you get stuck with an abandoned android distro from day one. The actual reading app is buggy as well (can absolutely get stuck when flipping pages backwards, then suddenly flips like 20 for one button…

Are you aware of any Android-based custom ROMs for them? I'd be somewhat okay with that if I can keep my device up-to-date myself.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your math is correct, but the refresh rates are so low that I don’t see it being an issue. Not to mention that by the time said panel is available on the market CPUs and GPUs will be better. Call it 400 dpi? 450, maybe? It doesn’t seem too farfetched to me. Also, there's a huge difference in bandwidth requirements if the display is monochrome. Consider the framebuffer needed for a conventional 8-bit colour depth disp…

Pairing it with a low refresh rate is admitting defeat. There are already multiple products on the market with full-screen refresh beyond 30Hz; Dasung’s Paperlike is probably the best known, they don’t publish an actual figure but just say it’s almost as high as LCDs; I’ve found one place of no obvious credibility saying it’s about 40Hz. All this is with ghosting, of course. High quality rendering definitely takes lo…

> All this is with ghosting, of course. High quality rendering definitely takes longer, and I get the impression from my reading and observations of a real device that bandwidth may play a part in that speed limit.

You’re talking about a general purpose monitor attached to a PC. How is bandwidth an issue there? The very same computer can push 120 Hz (or more) to higher res screens than the Dasung. It seems very clear to me that the problem is that the e-ink cells physically can’t react in time to show the next frame. The ghosting means they’re pushing it to the limit. If you’re talking about the controller within the display, well that argument doesn’t track. Controllers capable of pushing pixels that quickly work perfectly fine in conventional LCDs, even power constrained ones like an iPad Pro’s. Why not use those?

E-readers have been monochrome for over 20 years, not to mention every other limited-colour piece of hardware. Has that not been enough time for software to adapt and libraries to mature? To be clear, I’m not dreaming of a device to run X11, Firefox, and Doom (like the PineNote people seem to want). I want self-rewriting paper. Of course I want software tailored to that experience, not something off the shelf.

If I am making any ridiculous requests, it’s 600 dpi screens at that size. I’m sure there are a thousand reasons why that’s a hard engineering problem.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm familiar with the GPL claims. I'm not familiar with the telemetry claims. I'm asking for specific references both to establish the claims and to serve as an anchor reference to anyone encountering this thread in future. Finally, I much prefer DDG, and have used it for about a decade now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3473250

It was not clear which you claims you were referencing. Your goal of memorializing references was not clear. The request, in the form you posted, does not seem to be a productive way of achieving your ends. This may be especially true because in recent years I have noticed that "citation requested" types of comments are often used as a passive aggressive way of telling someone they're wrong, or the precursor to attacking the source once it's provided, especially on topics that have fast answers with a quick search. (including ddg in this case, which also returns appropriate results in the top 3 on both questions.)

I would respectfully suggest a different phrasing for such requests. I think I am not the only one who has noticed this unfortunate change in tone for a simple "citation requested", and so as I indicated they have have become much less productive to conversation. I have had to choose my own words more carefully in this respect as well.

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