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How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#31

Post by amelius »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #12
theshrike79 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have slowly become accustomed to high refresh rate displays. So that's a big no on e-ink displays unless they manage get them to 60Hz+ somehow

The devices I've seen with color e-ink need to intermittently flash the screen. I could live with a slow refresh rate, but having my screen flicker black once or twice a minute is a deal-breaker.

It would be a shame if this e-ink display that is advertised as "natural" induces more epileptic events than "artificial" light-emitting panels.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#32

Post by jMyles »

empalms wrote: post #20

Every time an E Ink article is posted the patent defeatism is inevitable. I’m curious if there are other techniques to implement reflective(?) displays being explored that wouldn’t fall within the scope of E Ink’s defensible moat, or, if their parents are simply so broad as to stifle most hopes of accessible solutions and broader consumer/professional adoption. Frankly, I’m quite sick of straining my eyes and circadi…

...or if they can simply be produced in a jurisdiction which does not recognize this patent?

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#33

Post by slater »

jMyles wrote: post #32
empalms wrote: post #20

Every time an E Ink article is posted the patent defeatism is inevitable. I’m curious if there are other techniques to implement reflective(?) displays being explored that wouldn’t fall within the scope of E Ink’s defensible moat, or, if their parents are simply so broad as to stifle most hopes of accessible solutions and broader consumer/professional adoption. Frankly, I’m quite sick of straining my eyes and circadi…

...or if they can simply be produced in a jurisdiction which does not recognize this patent?

...and then NOT sold in jurisdictions where the patent is recognized.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#34

Post by aeturnum »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #2

This is second hand info, so sorry if it's totally wrong, I'll edit this: E-ink tech is great, but patents and other paper-limitations are slowing down developments of cheap e-ink devices devices, and e-ink will become "great again", when patents expire. I personally see many, many usecases of e-ink all around me, but the prices are way too high for anything that is not either really small or a repurposed old existin…

There are areas where I am more skeptical of how patents are used (see: publicly funded medical research that creates privately owned patents), but I just don't see this as a problem in this case.

This isn't an essential technology - it's a nice addition to our display options. There's every reason to believe that new tech has actual new costs associated with it and that inventions might require elevated rates to make developing new tech economical. I don't like everything about patents - but they give companies a premium for new tech and the companies reveal how to make the tech in return.

It seems to me that if we eliminated patents w/o a new system, investing in technology would simply have a lower rate of return, and so it would happen less. I actually think that's ok - but I think people who bemoan the legal exclusivity that companies say enables them to invest in research should consider how much longer they would wait for the tech they like.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#35

Post by Kuinox »

jagger27 wrote: post #29

For most reading and writing tasks I think I’d rather have a a monochrome display with much higher DPI with extremely crisp high contrast edges. I hope that keeps improving too. Colour is something I’m willing to go without for this type of device. Maybe a single highlight colour would be nice to have as long as the red or yellow pigment occupies the same cell as black, not an adjacent one. A 600 dpi A4 sized tablet…

I want color, to read code, I can't give up on syntax highlighting

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#37

Post by Kuinox »

aeturnum wrote: post #34
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #2

This is second hand info, so sorry if it's totally wrong, I'll edit this: E-ink tech is great, but patents and other paper-limitations are slowing down developments of cheap e-ink devices devices, and e-ink will become "great again", when patents expire. I personally see many, many usecases of e-ink all around me, but the prices are way too high for anything that is not either really small or a repurposed old existin…

There are areas where I am more skeptical of how patents are used (see: publicly funded medical research that creates privately owned patents), but I just don't see this as a problem in this case. This isn't an essential technology - it's a nice addition to our display options. There's every reason to believe that new tech has actual new costs associated with it and that inventions might require elevated rates to mak…

Technology isn't essential until there is a breakthrough. Eink allow ultra low power display. If you make it extremely cheap it can be worldchanging: Extremely cheap screen that draw no power when there is no change.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#38

Post by ineedasername »

The article misses a significant device: Onyx Nova 3. The major difference between its prior color offering (poke 2) is the integration of a Wacom layer that makes this very good for note taking. The other hardware and software improvements appear to be incremental.

Of particular note with all Onyx readers is that they run Android, opening up the ecosystem of the Play store and particularly your note-taking app of choice.

Unfortunately, color eink are roughly 100 dpi compared to the 300 of b&w, although it's a layer over the b&w display so normal black and white content is still much crisper. The color layer does make it all appear darker though.

Also, ghosting can be a problem. Onyx has a few refresh settings that minimize it at the cost of refresh time. It looks like note taking is usually done on a faster refresh rate with occasional full screen refreshes to clean things up.

I'm not sure the tech is fully there yet, but it looks like it works well enough for things like color PDFs and comics. For heavy note taking color is probably not a requirement for most. I like the idea of the other larger b&w Onyx readers running android though. The Play store apps would add a lot of options over the Remarkable.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#39

Post by nicoburns »

empalms wrote: post #20

Every time an E Ink article is posted the patent defeatism is inevitable. I’m curious if there are other techniques to implement reflective(?) displays being explored that wouldn’t fall within the scope of E Ink’s defensible moat, or, if their parents are simply so broad as to stifle most hopes of accessible solutions and broader consumer/professional adoption. Frankly, I’m quite sick of straining my eyes and circadi…

Qualcomm are sitting on a reflective display technology "mirasol" that:

1. Doesn't hit E-ink's patents 2. Is colour 3. Has fast lcd-like refresh rates

The reviews of the few devices that were made were excellent. The main problem seemed to be the quality of other aspects of the devices that featured them. I find it incredibly frustrating that this hasn't made it into the mainstream.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#40

Post by seneca »

ineedasername wrote: post #38

The article misses a significant device: Onyx Nova 3. The major difference between its prior color offering (poke 2) is the integration of a Wacom layer that makes this very good for note taking. The other hardware and software improvements appear to be incremental. Of particular note with all Onyx readers is that they run Android, opening up the ecosystem of the Play store and particularly your note-taking app of ch…

It's worth noting that Onyx violates the Linux kernel license, and has a ton of telemetry that phones home to China. Major down sides for otherwise interesting tech.
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