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On Leaving Facebook

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Re: On Leaving Facebook

#471

Post by didip »

nathanfig wrote: post #464
andrew_ wrote: post #26

I just do not understand why somebody with 20 years of experience would invest that kind of time in leetcode. just say "no" and be done with the BS, and with the kind of financial success the author has enjoyed previously, wait for the right company to come along that doesn't require it. That's the only way the industry is going to fix itself; enough people start saying no.

Some people are very good at BSing their way through interviews, even technical ones. Those people also end up being very difficult to fire and are generally poisonous to culture. Asking them to code is a great filter, it’s hard to fool a compiler. It shouldn’t be the only filter, but for coding roles a coding interview is pretty critical.

Asking them to code is indeed a great filter. But is Dynamic Programming question necessary to perform the filter?

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#472

Post by erwincoumans »

didip wrote: post #470
erwincoumans wrote: post #417

A very kind and insightful post. PSC = Performance Summary Cycle . At Google/Alphabet we call this Perf , performance reviews, every 6 months. Mobility at different parts of Alphabet is more difficult, you may even have to interview again, switching from X or Waymo or DeepMind to Google.

oh, I heard mobility at Google is trivial? I guess that’s just a myth.

Switching teams within Google is usually easier, but between different Alphabet bets may be more involving.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#473

Post by ruph123 »

nathanfig wrote: post #464
andrew_ wrote: post #26

I just do not understand why somebody with 20 years of experience would invest that kind of time in leetcode. just say "no" and be done with the BS, and with the kind of financial success the author has enjoyed previously, wait for the right company to come along that doesn't require it. That's the only way the industry is going to fix itself; enough people start saying no.

Some people are very good at BSing their way through interviews, even technical ones. Those people also end up being very difficult to fire and are generally poisonous to culture. Asking them to code is a great filter, it’s hard to fool a compiler. It shouldn’t be the only filter, but for coding roles a coding interview is pretty critical.

How are people in the US difficult to fire?

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#474

Post by vogt »

I found a lot of value in this. I rarely find the desire to comment on threads with input that amounts just to “great job!”, but to the author: I took a lot of tips and inspiration from this. Thank you for sharing.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#475

Post by hutzlibu »

fallmonkey wrote: post #94

"A common question I get is about work/life balance. And I view it a little different too now. At Facebook I could get by barely working a few hours a day. But the job was so unsatisfying that it spilled the frustration in the “life” part" This is the golden piece for me. I too recently left a big corp to a smaller place, expecting to sacrifice WLB and my free time - yet I ended up feeling happier and spending less t…

"self-indulging online addiction is actually a coping mechanism towards the unsatisfying and meaningless daily job. "

Allmost every addiction is like this. A shallow replacement for the real desires unfulfiled.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#476

Post by vanusa »

em500 wrote: post #346
vanusa wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google (and all the other companies with similar net hiring ratios) use multiple factors to narrow their pre-interview pool; including standard techniques such as resume and phone screening. And then there's in-person interview itself, which involves broader cognitive and personality assessments (apart from in-person LC recitation). The parent poster was literally saying that LC screening by itself will get you your…

Of course, LC-only won't get you there, and all companies with LC use the whole arsenal. But I don't doubt that LC will filter out a very large fraction of applicants (hence the incessant whining on HN). The point is though, with Google-like application volumes, if they drop LC they'll need to substitute it with something that also filters out a very large fraction. The actual hiring ratio at google is something like…

I'll go with a "very large fraction".

It was this resorting to made-up numbers that I found to be kind of weird.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#477

Post by vlovich123 »

kyrra wrote: post #460
vlovich123 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Workplace is definitely better than Google chat in my experience. Phabricator is miles ahead of anything. Automatic flaky test detection works like a charm and I miss it every day. However, the organizational culture… I agree with a lot of what he noted about reorgs and that it feels like walking through molasses trying to get anything done quickly.

Googler, opinions are my own. If the Chat team is ever able to get inline-threads out the door: https://chromeunboxed.com/google-chat-rooms-become-spaces , it should make rooms/spaces a much better experience.

How about opening a room and not having it scroll forever out from under me? How about clicking on a chat link to a long thread (or scrolling up to it) and having that scroll away randomly out from under me?

There’s very basic usability and performance things that frustrate me on a fundamental level. The rest is at the margins.

Also, the builtin @silent way to chat a thread without notifying anyone is gold. Same goes for reminders. Also it’s chat + a consistent way to communicate out for a team. Workplace solves actual problems working with other people. Google Chat simply does slack-like chat, and poorly at that.

Edit: also all those things are drastically simpler than inline threads but not as sexy which tells you something about what the incentive structure looks like here. Disclaimer. I’m an ex googler. Thought chat was good when it came out but it’s regressed since then.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#478

Post by Swizec »

boppo1 wrote: post #300
Swizec wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coding is hard, but so is marketing, accounting, management ... But are your marketing candidates being put through the ringer too? I suspect software engineers are being uniquely hazed. My girlfriend works on the business strategy side of Fortune500’s. Our interviews look like a joke compared to theirs.

Also interested in top strategy interviews. Not that they aren't hard, just that "strategy" has always seemed so ephemeral to me. My business profs failed to impart any real criteria to define it. Seems like something people either have or they don't and all you can do is hire based on past success.

> all you can do is hire based on past success

That’s kinda what they do.

You are put through an initial ringer to vet for basic fit and competence. Then you get a take-home exercise that consists of several business case studies. You have to detail a strategy for what you would do in that situation, support your argument with research, etc. My girlfriend said it’s a lot like writing a term paper in college.

Last time she interviewed it took her I think 2 or 3 days of full-time work to do the case studies.

Then you go back and defend/present/discuss your work at an interview.

Her job consists of doing basically that, but with a team, larger consequences, more direct ownership, and loooooonger processes because so many people get involved in everything. Her team is strategizing what could become a trillion dollar product (in like 10 years) if they get it right. It’s pretty cool.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#479

Post by cooervo »

vanusa wrote: post #227
neilv wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the point in your career when you have so much money that you don't actually need a job?

More like you gradually come to a realization that your time in this world is extremely, extremely precious. And that you just don't particularly see a need to cater to other people's made up (and sometimes downright farcical) rituals to such an excessive degree. No matter how much money they may dangle in front of you.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#480

Post by vanusa »

ipaddr wrote: post #453
vanusa wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The founder's destructive behavior wasn't the only factor mentioned - in fact it was the least of all factors mentioned. ... acted like a sociopathic in some people's opinion? What's with the attempt at dissimulation here? The issue is what the guy did . Not "some people's opinion" of what he did. I can't see that affecting someone's employment. I can't see how the founder's ethical standards (expressed not just thro…

The issue is labeling and some people like yourself have label this as sociopathic. Others see your label and think less of anything you say for trying to find the most cutting label vs the more accurate. Why stop at facebook. Throwing chairs should make Microsoft a dead zone. Steve behaviour at Apple in the 80s should force you to return your iphone. Oracle, Amazon are not angels either.. Many of those small places…

Steve's behavior at Apple in the 80s should force you to return your iPhone.

So we're going in circles now.

Any and all issues raised about a company's ethical behavior in the current day (for example, outsourcing to suppliers with deplorable labor practices) are equivalent to stories of a founder's poor interpersonal skills from decades ago, in your view.

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