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New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

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Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#61
post #53
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve often heard it mentioned that the church of Latter Day Saints is a religious culture that abstain from alcohol and caffeine, and their life expectancy is many years longer than average, by a decade or so, even when they live amongst others in the same country and otherwise have similar environmental influences.

Do you have any actual evidence of this?

A quick Google finds lots of articles about it but I have nothing to add myself.

I.e. https://www.deseret.com/2010/4/13/20375744/ucla-study-proves...

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#62
post #21
post #9

The only thing I learned from this study is that the 20% of the Chinese can't drink.

and that is selection. Chinese were first to rely on fermented grains to be food at least 6k years ago. good strategy -- there are time when every calorie you can get counts. bad strategy -- its addictive and toxic. solution? favor those who could consume it to avoid starvation, but would not touch it otherwise because it is so unpleasant (instant hangover). Meanwhile brewing alcohol only started maybe 3k years ago i…

The selection story doesn't sound plausible to me.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 40 years old who is a muslim. I spent half of my life living in a muslim/arab country and the other hald in the west. Here is what I've seen: 1- Of all the people I know where I grew up in the arab country, probably only 2-3 drunk. This does correlate with the data [1]. But those 2-3 people did drink heavily. Could you back your personal experience with some stats? 2- Alcohol in the arab world has a different mea…

Great comment. Am curious about smoking/tobacco consumption?

I don't have stats on Smoking/Tabacco. but from the islamic perspective 'Any drink that intoxicates is unlawful.' and alcohol/drugs were specifically mentioned in the quran. This is why Smoking/Tabacco only was forbidden by scholars through a fatwa recently[1]. Saudi Arabia mentioned in the article as one of the highest smokers (23 rd) worldwide.

What the scholars did is basically infer that since smoking is harmful to the body, and since Islam prohibits harming your mind and body, smoking was then considered haram.

Muslim smokers would then just consider it a lesser sin, compared to Alcohol/Gambling/Interest..etc.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_tobacco

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#64
post #37
post #24

This would be born out with a lower average cancer rate in populations that do not drink alcohol. So one would expect cultures that do not of forbid drinking would have a lower rate of cancer. Alas it is hard to nail down that date due to various factors and types of cancer and equally, associated health care. So a high cancer death rate in one country compared to another, maybe due to health care as well, so really…

I’ve often heard it mentioned that the church of Latter Day Saints is a religious culture that abstain from alcohol and caffeine, and their life expectancy is many years longer than average, by a decade or so, even when they live amongst others in the same country and otherwise have similar environmental influences.

Correction, it was the Seventh-day Adventist Church I was thinking of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#H...

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implying that people here are so happy and proud of being alcoholics... Yeah, but it was expected to hear some "China bad" stuff in a thread about Chinese people - not even the government or the system. Hence, I dont believe you at all when you say "Government bad, people okay".

I'm sorry, what point are you trying to make? Where is "here" in your first sentence? The social credit system is somewhat unique, and it is not a stretch to say drinking to excess may not be regarded as a favorable characteristic. This may disincentivize individuals from reporting the behavior. I am similarly curious, and fail to see how this is derogatory to either the Chinese government or its people.

source for your claims, please.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#66
post #21
post #9

The only thing I learned from this study is that the 20% of the Chinese can't drink.

and that is selection. Chinese were first to rely on fermented grains to be food at least 6k years ago. good strategy -- there are time when every calorie you can get counts. bad strategy -- its addictive and toxic. solution? favor those who could consume it to avoid starvation, but would not touch it otherwise because it is so unpleasant (instant hangover). Meanwhile brewing alcohol only started maybe 3k years ago i…

I would assume that alcohol consumption makes people act less rationally, like having sexual intercourse when it would be better not to, leading to unplanned pregnancies. Evolution tends to favor behaviours which lead to more offspring.

I am not advocating this in any way of course, just pointing out why getting drunk might have evolutionary benefits besides not starving to death.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#67
post #48

Life (aging) is a direct cause of cancer. And we can't change that unless we have some sort of nanobots constantly repairing DNA damage in every single cell of our body.

Yes and no. While some cells may be impossible to rejuvenate otherwise, there are few reasons why we cannot just exchange many organs for dish grown ones, i.e artificially grown kidneys. For others like blood stem cells, we many extinguish the existing ones and add replace them by fresh ones that lack any pathogenic somatic mutations every so often. Even parts of the brain may be replaced one by one, though I assume such a technology is quite far away (compared to the other two that may be possible in the next 2-3 decades).

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#68
post #21
post #9

The only thing I learned from this study is that the 20% of the Chinese can't drink.

and that is selection. Chinese were first to rely on fermented grains to be food at least 6k years ago. good strategy -- there are time when every calorie you can get counts. bad strategy -- its addictive and toxic. solution? favor those who could consume it to avoid starvation, but would not touch it otherwise because it is so unpleasant (instant hangover). Meanwhile brewing alcohol only started maybe 3k years ago i…

That’s quite far fetched.

> Chinese were first to rely on fermented grains to be food at least 6k years ago.

Not really. We found vessels that are that old, and that contained fermented grain, the rest is extrapolation. There is also evidence of some kind of beer making in Egypt not that long afterwards. Fermented things are present in almost any culture you could care to have a look at, even the remotest Amazonian tribes.

> solution? favor those who could consume it to avoid starvation, but would not touch it otherwise because it is so unpleasant (instant hangover).

6k years is awfully short for evolution to drive out a bit of genotype in a whole population. Also, again the same thing was happening in Egypt at around the same time, and we don’t have any proof that it did not happen elsewhere as well.

Also, a pet peeve of mine: evolution is not sentient. There is no being that “favor” or drive to extinction according to a pre-existing plan.

> Meanwhile brewing alcohol only started maybe 3k years ago in north western Europe so they are still figuring it out.

It does not work like that, there is no line in the sand for evolution to have worked instead of being “figuring it out”.

For some versions of a gene to be selected, you also need a driving force, in the form of either improved fitness in some environments, or the number of children. Alcohol causing a tiny increase in absolute terms of some specific types of cancers, that are not all that likely to kill someone before they reproduce, seems quite unlikely to be that driving force.

OTOH, alcohol is well known to increase social contacts, which is likely to result in more offsprings (see e.g. studies on alcohol consumption and teenage pregnancy rates).

Overall, this theory sounds truthy and consistent with a pop-culture understanding of evolution, but is not quite consistent with our understanding of history or biology.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#69
Ok, not good finding that link while suffering from such a terrible hangover from last night as I am right now.

I’ve been always concerned about alcohol and health, personally more on the cognitive side than the physical one. I’ve tried to “quit” many times but the thing is that absolutely every social event where I live (UK) involves alcohol in one way or the other. Is crazy how culturally accepted is around the world. You can see it everywhere and the campaign for normalizing its consumption is very obvious. I would definitely like to quit. Is a habit that has only given me bad things or directly nothing at all.

Anyways, I hope one day I’ll find a good balance between not drinking at all while not being seen as a weirdo when meeting with friends.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#70
post #64
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve often heard it mentioned that the church of Latter Day Saints is a religious culture that abstain from alcohol and caffeine, and their life expectancy is many years longer than average, by a decade or so, even when they live amongst others in the same country and otherwise have similar environmental influences.

Correction, it was the Seventh-day Adventist Church I was thinking of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-day_Adventist_Church#H...

There’s handful of places in the world that were believed to an have an unusually high number of extremely old people and it’s like Loma Linda, California, Okinawa , Japan, Sardinia, Italy, Nicoya, Costa Rica, and Icaria, Greece.

Turned out that Loma Linda (because of the Adventists) was the only legit one and the others were just a result of bad record keeping/fraud (people pretending dead relatives were alive to collect pensions).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone

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