New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer • Hacker News Board

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#21

Post by tejtm » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 9:28 AM UTC

mateo1 wrote: post #9

The only thing I learned from this study is that the 20% of the Chinese can't drink.

and that is selection. Chinese were first to rely on fermented grains to be food at least 6k years ago.

good strategy -- there are time when every calorie you can get counts.

bad strategy -- its addictive and toxic.

solution? favor those who could consume it to avoid starvation, but would not touch it otherwise because it is so unpleasant (instant hangover).

Meanwhile brewing alcohol only started maybe 3k years ago in north western Europe so they are still figuring it out.

And poor north America did not stand a chance, bulk fruit/grain preservation via fermentation had never became widespread then it showed up fully refined.

Metabolizing alcohol yields aldehydes, which can and do cause double strand breaks in DNA. We normally have processes to repair the damage but mistakes will be made and build up over time.

There is no minimum safe healthy amount to consume.

Drinking alcohol just beats starving, nothing more.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#22

Post by throwaway_4ever » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 9:35 AM UTC

gtsop wrote: post #11

josefx wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Is this even a serious question/discussion? I am not pro-china but I can't help but notice the us-induced narrative to just hate-spam russia and china as totalitarian states purely based on the socioeconomic differences. This meme isn't even funny.

Russia?? Purely based on socioeconomic differences?

They invaded Crimea and the Donbas in Ukraine. They are literally about to further invade Ukraine and have already amassed 100k troops and heavy weaponry, thousands of Ukrainian lives and their sovereignty be damned…

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#23

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

tejtm wrote: post #21

mateo1 wrote: post #9

The only thing I learned from this study is that the 20% of the Chinese can't drink.

and that is selection. Chinese were first to rely on fermented grains to be food at least 6k years ago. good strategy -- there are time when every calorie you can get counts. bad strategy -- its addictive and toxic. solution? favor those who could consume it to avoid starvation, but would not touch it otherwise because it is so unpleasant (instant hangover). Meanwhile brewing alcohol only started maybe 3k years ago i…

[deleted]

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#24

Post by Zenst » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

This would be born out with a lower average cancer rate in populations that do not drink alcohol. So one would expect cultures that do not of forbid drinking would have a lower rate of cancer. Alas it is hard to nail down that date due to various factors and types of cancer and equally, associated health care. So a high cancer death rate in one country compared to another, maybe due to health care as well, so really gets down to diagnosis of cancer and types of cancer. Saying cancer is a bit like saying the flu, there are many variations under that catch-all imbrella label.

In my search for data, about the most intersting for visualisation would be https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/all-cance...

Though mindful, health care and with that a better health system would detect more cancer and mind-set of people to seek or be able to approach a health system is a huge factor that only add's to muddy the waters. Hence for me, whilst this maybe a factor, has the data been sanatised for example those that drink and smoke? Those that drink and enviromental factors (air and water quality) and more so, standards of living. Many drink to offset stress caused by many factors and without the details it is hard to nail things down.

So would be more interested in a more granular study and per country's Worldwide. Though if you use the link and look at Alcohol and then the Cancer map, there is defiantly something there. Though very much mindful that one countries reporting of data can be less accurate than another's, as we have seen with Covid reporting early on.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#25

Post by gtsop » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:10 AM UTC

throwaway_4ever wrote: post #22

gtsop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this even a serious question/discussion? I am not pro-china but I can't help but notice the us-induced narrative to just hate-spam russia and china as totalitarian states purely based on the socioeconomic differences. This meme isn't even funny.

Russia?? Purely based on socioeconomic differences? They invaded Crimea and the Donbas in Ukraine. They are literally about to further invade Ukraine and have already amassed 100k troops and heavy weaponry, thousands of Ukrainian lives and their sovereignty be damned…

Just like the US has done on another dosens cases throughout their history. Please don't spam, my statement still stands. Both sides have done wrong, i just get annoyed when i see the obvious "US good - China/Russia bad" narrative being subliminally pushed on irrelevant matters.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#26

Post by nraynaud » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:11 AM UTC

Zenst wrote: post #24

This would be born out with a lower average cancer rate in populations that do not drink alcohol. So one would expect cultures that do not of forbid drinking would have a lower rate of cancer. Alas it is hard to nail down that date due to various factors and types of cancer and equally, associated health care. So a high cancer death rate in one country compared to another, maybe due to health care as well, so really…

the study of mormon communities did actually show a lower cancer rate. I can't find the article anymore, but it's visible in breast cancer rate (I don't remember what the study was controlled for).

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#27

Post by throwawaynay » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

gtsop wrote: post #11

josefx wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Is this even a serious question/discussion? I am not pro-china but I can't help but notice the us-induced narrative to just hate-spam russia and china as totalitarian states purely based on the socioeconomic differences. This meme isn't even funny.

There is a literal genocide going on in China right now, this is not hate-spam. Russia is about to invade a foreign country again.

This isn't the US induced narrative, this is literally what's currently happening according to any informed person that is not being paid/brainwashed by the Chinese or Russian government.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#28

Post by dsq » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:26 AM UTC

Comparing Islamic societies (alcohol forbidden) with others should be a good basis for research. Also, non Islamic sub cultures in Islamic countries (Copts in Egypt, Maronites in Lebanon).

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#29

Post by throwawaynay » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:27 AM UTC

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #19

josefx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not claiming that the CCP meetings are full of drunks, I am just asking how far "excessive" alcohol consumption is supposedly accepted behavior. I would be seriously surprised if that was accepted. Sorry for not being clear about that.

Chinese people are just like any other people. That’s also true of most of the planet. Have you spent any time living in East Asia? Perhaps you ought to.

No they're not. Who the hell would to want to live in a genocidal totalitarian state where people bury their newborn daughters and where 10% of food is made from sewer oil?Also a country where people would rather kill you if they run you over?And where your organs can get harvested by the government? The only legitimate reason to want to live in China would be to actively work against the government criminal actions but that would also be suicidal.

Re: New genetic study confirms that alcohol is a direct cause of cancer

#30

Post by throwawaynay » Sat, Jan 22, 2022, 10:29 AM UTC

gtsop wrote: post #25

throwaway_4ever wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia?? Purely based on socioeconomic differences? They invaded Crimea and the Donbas in Ukraine. They are literally about to further invade Ukraine and have already amassed 100k troops and heavy weaponry, thousands of Ukrainian lives and their sovereignty be damned…

Just like the US has done on another dosens cases throughout their history. Please don't spam, my statement still stands. Both sides have done wrong, i just get annoyed when i see the obvious "US good - China/Russia bad" narrative being subliminally pushed on irrelevant matters.

No the US is not good, not at all. It's pretty bad, but it's currently not a greater threat than China. The US is not currently invading Canada or Mexico, or harvesting organs from minorities.

This is not irrelevant, China is the new Nazi Germany and the greatest threat to the world besides global warming.