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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#441

Post by bitcharmer »

thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #350
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

Regarding growing incivility. I moved from the US to Poland around ‘05. Not long ago I went to the US, Bay Area, for the first time in ten years, on a business trip for my employer. I didn’t expect such a culture shock but the incivility was striking. Every day I would run into absolutely savage behavior while just commuting or getting food. I wasn’t sure what to make of it and this here is the first time I’ve seen A…

It also might be that once in Europe you started soaking in our values and standards and today behaviours common in USA you might see in a different light.

I moved out of Poland to the UK many years ago and have the exact same experience as you. I'm a very different person now and many things I had thought were normal I now do not accept.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#442

Post by vorpalhex »

cxr wrote: post #428
vorpalhex wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the front line labor want securities instead of cash? You'd end up having to do something like a co-op model. However, if you want employees to earn their payout even if they leave before that five year payout then they couldn't sell back co-op ownership. That means the co-op ownership continually gets diluted, or you run out of cap table to be able to hire more. This scheme also means the first, eg fry cook, woul…

> Do the front line labor want securities instead of cash? I didn't see anyone say "instead of".

If you want executives, you need to pay them.

Organizations without executives exist at really really small scales but they tend to be very short lived.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#443

Post by ZeroGravitas »

This is yet another obscure benefit of UBI and/or comprehensive social safety nets in general (and on a smaller scale, getting rid of tipping as a cultural practice).

Employer abusing you? You have options. Employer allowing customers to abuse you? You have options. And not only when there's a temporary shortage of what you're offering the market.

It's not a coincidence that people see tipping as a hold over from slavery and class systems.

Every time you see people saying that you can't give people healthcare or they won't want to work they're actively saying they want to trap people in these situations by removing their leverage. If you can't provide a service to the public without abusing your employees and threatening to withdraw their families healthcare, maybe we'd all be better off if you went out of business and someone else provided that service in a different way. Because that is uncivil.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#444

Post by cxr »

vorpalhex wrote: post #442
cxr wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do the front line labor want securities instead of cash? I didn't see anyone say "instead of".

If you want executives, you need to pay them. Organizations without executives exist at really really small scales but they tend to be very short lived.

> If you want executives, you need to pay them.

I didn't see anyone say anything that conflicted with that, either.

You sure you're keeping track of the discussion here?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#445

Post by alistairSH »

0xffff2 wrote: post #409
alistairSH wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most states (not sure if it's a federal law), tip-earners are guaranteed to be "topped up" or "made whole" if their tips don't bring them to the normal minimum wage. That minimum is still too low to be livable in many areas, Texas included, but that's a separate, albeit related, problem.

I only ever worked a tipped job in California, where there is no separate tipped minimum, but it's a very common refrain from service industry workers commenting online that this "top up" happens far less often than you would think.

Sadly, I’ve heard the same. That’s wage theft. And a good reason to do away with tipping and start paying wait staff a real living wage.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#446

Post by bradleyjg »

HWR_14 wrote: post #438
bradleyjg wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% comes off the top in the form of tips that never make it to the till. The other 5% is a fudge factor for the fact that you still need to pay something in wages.

Your numbers imply that the hourly productivity of a waiter in the US serves food that is just under $50 on the menu and thy make a $12.50 tip on the same. More in areas with a higher tip minimum wage. Do those numbers seem reasonable to you?

I don’t understand where you are getting those numbers.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#447

Post by daveevad »

nebula8804 wrote: post #439
daveevad wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably being naive but the assassination of JFK is the most interesting alternative history moment for me. Should he have finished his term and steered the US clear of Vietnam (I know very debatable) and seen man go to the "moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard," I think things would have gone much better.

My history is a little fuzzy but would we have gotten the Civil Rights Act? From what I understand, JFK was having some serious trouble getting it passed (instead of some watered down piecemeal legislation) but a combination of the state of a mourning country post-assassination + Johnson betraying the people who elected him(he was the good ol boy from the south placed there to represent their 'values') provided the c…

Alternate history is impossible to prove, and to your point, my history is just as fuzzy if not fuzzier; however, I do remember the reverence RFK had for MLK when announcing his assassination.

I don't know that the Civil Rights Act passes in this timeline, at least not at the exact moment, but maybe it does? However, you get to avoid Vietnam. Maybe it's not helpful pondering these sorts of things, but is trading the Civil Rights Act for Vietnam a good deal, net benefit for humanity wise?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#448

Post by daveevad »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #434
daveevad wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a hard time accepting that the President ever punches up. He's the most powerful person in the world and has the sole authority to authorize the use of U.S. nuclear weapons. The office enjoys the Bully Pulpit and it is valuable to have this arrangement in my opinion. At any rate, watch the clip if you haven't recently. https://youtu.be/n9mzJhvC-8E?t=574 It's pretty interesting actually, to me at least, tha…

If the president was trying to "punch up" with respect to national and international policy, I would totally agree with you. But consider the moment right now. Do you think that if President Biden were to satirically mock Jeff Bezos about wealth, space travel, employee care, or putative drone delivery, that he would actually be punching "down" from the white house? I certainly don't think so.

Trump on Jeff Bezos' divorce: "I wish him luck, I wish him luck. It's going to be a beauty."

I think that's punching down. I'm not sure it's a helpful abstraction, but I think once one becomes President it's impossible to separate the person from the office until their term ends.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#449

Post by DarylZero »

ethbr0 wrote: post #362
PaulAJ wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Kids with poor social skills get bullied.

I'd counter that getting bullied is a critical component of learning social skills. Put rails on it with teacher or parent supervision, so it doesn't get out of hand and the worst excesses can be avoided. But if children can't navigate social situations... they grow up into the adults we are literally talking about. (Said as someone who had a difficult time socially as a child, and put in and continue to put in consi…

Social situations in which you're NOT bullied are critical to learning social skills.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#450

Post by vorpalhex »

cxr wrote: post #444
vorpalhex wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want executives, you need to pay them. Organizations without executives exist at really really small scales but they tend to be very short lived.

> If you want executives, you need to pay them. I didn't see anyone say anything that conflicted with that, either. You sure you're keeping track of the discussion here?

> I didn't see anyone say anything that conflicted with that, either.

Please look up:

> > Do the front line labor want securities instead of cash? > > I didn't see anyone say "instead of".

The whole of the pie is finite. If one slice is made bigger, the others must be made smaller.

The pie, in it's entirety, can be bigger or smaller with securities. That is largely determined by it's executives. Better executives cost more. Lesser executives cost less. A lesser executive shrinks the whole of the value of the securities. A better executive makes the whole pie larger, but wants a larger piece too.

> You sure you're keeping track of the discussion here?

Does snark like this work other places you post? Like, I can continue explaining concepts like "money is finite" and "lots of businesses fail and their stock is then worthless" if you really need that. Right now you're saying we should be paying low wage workers with fancy pieces of paper on the off chance they make extra money five years in the future when it does them no good. That's not some clever insight into how to fix economic disparity, it's just very silly.

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