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Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

reuters.com

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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#391

Post by 908B64B197 »

asdff wrote: post #313
umvi wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> extremely low cost of living and a city/region that has more good restaurants and activities than might be expected That's what people said about Salt Lake City and Boise... until about 5 years ago. Cost of living has skyrocketed since 2017, housing alone has doubled in price. It doesn't take long for a low cost of living region to become high cost of living.

Cost of living in Columbus is low if you are looking at it with Coastal city eyes. That being said, its still the most expensive city in Ohio. Houses in the hot neighborhoods people write articles about were hitting 700k 6 years ago. Rents in new apartments are like $1300 for a 1 bedroom.

I don't get why cost of living is factored at all.

The biggest expense is typically housing. And if you bought the house, it means the biggest expense is... building equity into an asset you can sell afterward.

Keep in mind the engineer who purchased a 2 million house in Palo Alto can sell it for two million, and then move to Ohio to a much cheaper house purchased in cash. The reverse isn't true.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#392

Post by asdff »

kesslern wrote: post #364
asdff wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living in Columbus is low if you are looking at it with Coastal city eyes. That being said, its still the most expensive city in Ohio. Houses in the hot neighborhoods people write articles about were hitting 700k 6 years ago. Rents in new apartments are like $1300 for a 1 bedroom.

> That being said, its still the most expensive city in Ohio. Yes, because it's the only major city that's growing. Cleveland, Cincinatti, Toledo, and Dayton are all losing population year-over-year while Columbus's grows.

Just remarking its not entirely cheap. You can move there and get a job that pays well, but you aren't alone, other people are going to have well paid jobs too and you will find the same competitive housing market for decent neighborhoods that you see in places like Portland or wherever. Especially when you consider how your full tax structure works it might not be as much of a deal over time as CA with prop 13 as your taxes will be reassessed every few years and if the market climbed, so did your tax bill. There's probably fewer opportunities to leg up your earned income to match in a place with less jobs and smaller network effects like Central Ohio than there is in major job centers with more options for lateral moves.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#393

Post by selimthegrim »

asdff wrote: post #351
MrDunham wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having moved to Columbus a couple years ago everyone loved to say that over 60% of the US population is within a one day drive of Columbus. For the Bay Area readers the distance from Cleveland to Columbus is roughly the same as San Francisco to Sacramento

It's hard to understate just how driveable this side of the country is from Ohio. In about 7 hours one direction you are in Chicago. 7 hours another direction you are in Toronto. 7 hours another direction you are in NYC, or DC, or Boston. Stretch it to 15 hours or so and you can drive all the way to New Orleans, or most of Florida in that time, and anywhere in between. Anywhere east of the Mississippi really is seemi…

>Stretch it to 15 hours or so and you can drive all the way to New Orleans

Having done this, I would recommend it only in urgency

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#394

Post by justin66 »

jet777 wrote: post #108

I so wish they would've picked Cleveland over Columbus

I assume the deal with Intel was negotiated by the state government and so Cleveland was never in the running, but it must be said, the City of Cleveland has traditionally had a knack for repelling businesses that are interested in making big moves into the city. Progressive and Eaton both wanted to be headquartered downtown, instead of out in the burbs.

An Intel fab in the City of Cleveland proper is something to contemplate, but I doubt very much that it was ever a possibility. You'd probably want to locate such a thing further out in the county.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#395

Post by selimthegrim »

nurspouse wrote: post #175
nwiswell wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well for Oregon. But it's a little more nuanced than pay for two reasons. 1) Intel is a little like proto-Amazon. There is a preference for hiring people directly out of grad school and inducting them into the cult while they are still naive, so that's just what they come to expect for work-life balance. 2) The whole semiconductor industry is like this, and particularly so for production fabs. If you have domain…

> There is a preference for hiring people directly out of grad school and inducting them into the cult while they are still naive, so that's just what they come to expect for work-life balance. Heh. I once interviewed for an internal SW position that dealt with fab automation. I openly told them in the interview that I knew about their work culture and that was of great concern to me. Interviewer: I know what you mea…

When I was a green badge SWE at Intel all my (blue badge) coworkers were 15-20 years older than me. No one my age stuck around.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#396

Post by asdff »

908B64B197 wrote: post #391
asdff wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living in Columbus is low if you are looking at it with Coastal city eyes. That being said, its still the most expensive city in Ohio. Houses in the hot neighborhoods people write articles about were hitting 700k 6 years ago. Rents in new apartments are like $1300 for a 1 bedroom.

I don't get why cost of living is factored at all. The biggest expense is typically housing. And if you bought the house, it means the biggest expense is... building equity into an asset you can sell afterward. Keep in mind the engineer who purchased a 2 million house in Palo Alto can sell it for two million, and then move to Ohio to a much cheaper house purchased in cash. The reverse isn't true.

You also pay taxes. But you are right that for the first movers it will be an easy transition into living opulantly in Ohio. The same can't be said for the next generation of workers, who graduate and have no capital accrued from working at bay area rates, and start their careers working for these Ohio based employers at Ohio based salary rates, and since Columbus is experiencing the same lack of supply issue everywhere growing faces, this generation are going to find a cutthroat market for them like the current generation of engineers fleeing 2 million dollar homes in Palo Alto.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#397

Post by selimthegrim »

gaoshan wrote: post #162
MathCodeLove wrote: post #130

I've actually been considering a move to Ohio this June. Any suggestions for whetr in Ohio I should look? My main consideration is low CoL as I work remotely but I'd like there to be stuff to do within a reasonable driving distance.

Columbus. I moved to Ohio from Florida some years back and do not regret it at all. I get so much more for my money that it feels like a cheat code. Move to Columbus and look into the various suburban communities. A fantastic one that is up and coming (though it's really getting quite far along that arc) is called Grandview. Leafy, compact, cute, cool shops, bike paths and restaurants and only 10 minutes from downtow…

Cleveland has older and higher quality cultural institutions on your doorstep if that sort of thing is your jam.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#398

Post by selimthegrim »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #159
MathCodeLove wrote: post #130

I've actually been considering a move to Ohio this June. Any suggestions for whetr in Ohio I should look? My main consideration is low CoL as I work remotely but I'd like there to be stuff to do within a reasonable driving distance.

If you are looking at Northern Ohio, Strongsville, North Royalton, Solon, Perrysburg, Parma Heights, Massillion all are decent places.

Parma/Parma Heights has the reputation of being the "Staten Island" of Cleveland FYI

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#400

Post by Torifyme12 »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #387
reportingsjr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cincinnati (where I live) is about half a year away from completing the largest city financed solar array in the US [0,1]. Ohio gets plenty of sun, in fact it averages more sun than _anywhere_ in Germany which is known for it's solar [2,3]. In Ohio for residential, which is a good bit more expensive than commercial/utility scale solar, the payback period is about 12 years[4], well within the margin of getting your mo…

> in Germany which is known for it's solar Pretty sure Germany is more know for poor green energy planning, burning more coal, and instance on non optimal strategies for power generation (killing nuclear).

Also for managing to be so dependent on Russian gas it torpedoes a lot of measures to contain them
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