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Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

reuters.com

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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#321

Post by totalZero »

bbreier wrote: post #136
galangalalgol wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers which aren't normal silicon or tiny feature size. Tesla is using silicon carbide, and gallium arsenide will probably be next. The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

Also the infotainment. And real questions because I'm genuinely curious: do driver assists (ABS, ASR, TCS) and their adjustments rely on processors? What about in-car adjustments to suspension height, ride firmness, throttle response (e.g. eco vs sport vs comfort modes)? Lane keep assist, blind spot checking, adaptive cruise control all seem like things that would require processing power as well.

> do driver assists (ABS, ASR, TCS) and their adjustments rely on processors?

If I'm not mistaken, microprocessors aren't the only semiconductor components that have been in short supply recently. Things like shaft position sensors are also solid-state devices.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#322

Post by ghaff »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #241
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from Cal, which other State(s) do you consider to be at least growing a culture of innovation? Just curious because might move to US from Canada in the future.

I'm sure there are more, and I haven't been everywhere, but these are ones that stand out to me: - Greater Boston area (outside of Boston, the high tech companies are pretty scattered) - Chicago (and the North/West suburbs) - Virginia (Tysons, Alexandria) - North Carolina (Research Triangle) - Portland - Austin The obvious ones: Bay Area, LA, NYC, Seattle area If you're into specific industries, then there are areas…

Boston isn't as scattered as it was 20 years ago. A lot of pharma and biotech in Kendall Square as well as outposts of California companies. And there are various startups maybe especially in the Seaport. Amazon has a lot of space in the Seaport as well.

But, yes, the computer industry in Massachusetts always tended to be in Metrowest and the defense contractors were/are out in the suburbs as well.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#323

Post by vel0city »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #156
galangalalgol wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers which aren't normal silicon or tiny feature size. Tesla is using silicon carbide, and gallium arsenide will probably be next. The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

Automotive EE here… > the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers I wish I had the time to explain how this could not be more wrong. Quickly, I’ll mention that the vehicle I’m working on has 8 separate modules for the driver’s seat. Inside these modules are a combined total of 10 processors with as many bootloaders and flash procedures and valid…

The previous poster is definitely massively oversimplifying things, and I do value your input as someone who actually works in the field. Obviously, there's still a lot of the same kind of controllers when it comes to all the switches and displays and motorized chairs and turn signal logic and all of those things which are practically the exact same as an ICE. And obviously there's some places where you don't need controllers and sensors on an EV where you would have them on an ICE, like mass airflow sensors and fuel injection controls and stuff like that. Meanwhile you do have additional circuitry like the inverters to actually drive the motors, BMS systems, there's still sensors on the motors and wheels and what not, brake regen, etc.

You mentioned the transmission is more complex compared to an ICE, but that does not make much sense to me at all. To my knowledge most EVs are essentially fixed gear ratio gearboxes, so you're either in drive, reverse, or neutral. Meanwhile ICE transmissions are becoming more and more like computer-controlled manual transmissions what with the rise in popularity of dual-clutch automatic transmissions. To me it seems a ton more complicated keeping track of operating that DCT than just "the dial is in D, change transmission to the forward mode."

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#324

Post by asdff »

mrfusion wrote: post #237
jnorthrop wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention low probability of natural disasters: Earthquakes, tornados, wild fire, hurricanes, etc.

Low geopolitical risk is probably one of the best factors.

Low Geopolitical risk but high risk to personal liberties, especially if you are a woman. Look at Ohio and its slow decline from purple into red state. Gerrymandered to hell and back too to prevent this from changing in the foreseeable future, and a state democratic party that is powerless against the state republicans who have secured tenures for life thanks to their inventive mapmaking processes. Companies move to Ohio because a corrupt politician offered them a cherry deal on property like this more often than not.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#325

Post by gaoshan »

sergiotapia wrote: post #262
gaoshan wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Columbus. I moved to Ohio from Florida some years back and do not regret it at all. I get so much more for my money that it feels like a cheat code. Move to Columbus and look into the various suburban communities. A fantastic one that is up and coming (though it's really getting quite far along that arc) is called Grandview. Leafy, compact, cute, cool shops, bike paths and restaurants and only 10 minutes from downtow…

Looking at a 5 bedroom home and the prices seem just in line with Miami prices here in West Kendall (3000 sq feet). Where are you looking that feels like a cheat code?

I just checked 5 bedroom homes in Kendall and the cheapest on the first page of results was just under $800k. The average (first 6 results on Realtor.com) is $1,029,333. With Columbus you have to check the various neighborhoods (like Kendall is to Miami) so checking one of the nicer ones (Dublin) I see 4 in the $600k range with an average of the first 6 results of $837,283. That makes Dublin (a suburb of Columbus with top schools and higher than average incomes) quite a bit cheaper in the huge house arena.

Kendall's average household income is $73,612 while Dublin's is $137,867. If I picked a neighborhood with an equivalent household income the price difference would be even more stark.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#326

Post by adamcstephens »

supernova87a wrote: post #281

Is it true that once such a plant is built, the number of skilled workers to keep it running is actually relatively low? I.e. some operational "dev-ops" style engineers who can fix and troubleshoot highly automated lines, keep the thing running. People to supervise the systems, some workers to handle raw materials, etc. and then the packaging on the output side. But in general, quite sparse for a million square foot…

They’re touting this project as 3k permanent employees.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#327

Post by timr »

rotten wrote: post #187

This same street has a Facebook data center, an AWS data center, and a Google data center (within a couple of miles). There is a biotech research campus, Bath & Bodyworks main research lab, and the main operations center for AEP (a midwest electric company). If you travel about 2-3 miles orthogonal to that street we have a big data center for Nationwide Insurance, a campus for Discover (credit cards), and a State Far…

Curious -- grew up near New Albany, but haven't been back in years. What street is it?

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#328

Post by nebula8804 »

55873445216111 wrote: post #299
rotten wrote: post #187

This same street has a Facebook data center, an AWS data center, and a Google data center (within a couple of miles). There is a biotech research campus, Bath & Bodyworks main research lab, and the main operations center for AEP (a midwest electric company). If you travel about 2-3 miles orthogonal to that street we have a big data center for Nationwide Insurance, a campus for Discover (credit cards), and a State Far…

Silicon fabs do not make server boards. They just produce the silicon wafer i.e. "die" of a semiconductor device. Most die must be assembled into a package before they can be used. The die packaging aka "backend" is almost never done at the same place as the fab. Most backend is in Taiwan or Malaysia or China. Even after the die is packaged, it needs to be mounted on a complete PCB with all the other components. Inte…

I know there are PCB manufacturers somewhere in the US. I don't know about packaging. Do you know which firms do packaging of the dies and why can't the US do it(It can't just be cost)? How hard can it be really? Its essentially plastic , maybe some metal, and gold isn't it? Maybe an argument could be made to locate at least one source of manufacturing for all these steps in a local area. But thats just the programmer in me wanting to optimize without understanding the realities of manufacturing costs.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#329

Post by timr »

yucky wrote: post #190
MrDunham wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I live in Columbus Ohio and I’m friends with two of the top people in our economic development department the broker this deal. I can’t speak well to why not Cleveland but I can say that the actual city that they chose (New Albany, OH, 25 min to downtown and 15-20 to the airport) was built by Les Wexner, founder of L brands/Victoria’s Secret, is now home to data centers for Facebook, Google, and an AWS data cente…

>Les Wexner Didn't Epstein have some sort of exclusive investor relationship with Wexner? I seem to recall that was where he got his start.

Yes. He also had a home in New Albany.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#330

Post by hardolaf »

kragen wrote: post #242
hardolaf wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My undergraduate degree in ECE at OSU went far more in-depth on topics and set me up far better than the graduate programs at Purdue or UIUC do in their first year of graduate school. A huge part of that is that OSU's ECE department does not have senior-level courses. They only have senior/graduate courses. So the seniors are taking graduate level courses (when I went there, at least 4 were required to graduate). Als…

Purdue has a great reputation but I don't know anything about it personally except via Eugene Spafford. I may be biased because I like Scheme — SICP was a life-changing epiphany for me, and Essentials of Programming Languages was also quite revelatory — and Indiana has done a lot of inspiring Scheme work. I don't know of anything of similar importance from OSU but maybe they're really great in CPU design or subthresh…

You're not going to learn electrical and computer engineering by reading stuff on Sci-Hub. You might get some knowledge, but so much is just simply never published that it's essentially tribal knowledge. Heck, even with professors walking you through every step of learning the topics, it's hard.

As for computer architecture, OSU is not heavily into computer architecture. It's much more focused on custom accelerators and ASICs as well as semiconductor research. And it is recognized as one of the best ECE programs in the world with one of the main problems with it being that the CS department is comparatively weak.

My graduating class, in a December, was still over 1,000 engineers. Spring graduation typically had 2.5-3.5K/yr.

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