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Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

reuters.com

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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#101

Post by Aperocky »

shoyer wrote: post #95
sidlls wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t very charitable. When companies publish this sort of thing they’re generally committed (however tentatively) to within some reasonable percentage of the amount. Provided of course it makes financial sense after further diligence and the like.

Foxconn once said it would spend $10B building a factory in Wisconsin. Now the claim is $672M -- over next six years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_in_Wisconsin We'll believe it when it happens.

It's a race to the bottom, once an unspoken rule has been broken it will stay that way forever.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#102

Post by WillPostForFood »

flybrand wrote: post #27
ksec wrote: post #15

Intel said the same thing for Arizona as well. Initial $20B investment which could expand to $100B. So they are building it in two places. I wonder why they dont keep it all in Arizona? ( May be Tax Break, but I have no idea how Tax Break works in US ) And if you include their (expected) expansion in EUR, Intel is layering the foundation for Foundry Services. Compared to its half assed Custom Foundry in 2012/2013 wit…

> why not all AZ? Game theory between US states playing to get the most gov’t assistance? Finite pool of talent? Our plants are in rural areas and everyone is struggling to hire, from auto to bakeries.

The Intel plant in AZ plant is in Chandler, which is more suburban than rural - it can draw on much of the Phoenix Metro population (4.5million) for hiring.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#103

Post by Aperocky »

nurspouse wrote: post #86
beambot wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash" - https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ > Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC) faces challenges managing employees at its new fab in Arizona who are unaccustomed to the long work hours and management culture that in Taiwan have helped make the company the world’s largest chip foundry.

Having worked at Intel, I can tell you that the process side of Intel has similar work hours. This, in particular, rings true for Intel: > Different positions may have different requirements, so work hours vary, according to the principal engineer. “An equipment engineer might start work at 8 o’clock in the morning and leave around 9 o’clock at night, but is it normal? This may happen two or three days a week. On a p…

How much are Intel process engineers paid to withstand that?

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#104

Post by MrDunham »

long_time_gone wrote: post #73
qsmi wrote: post #67

Does anyone know why Intel would want to build a "mega-site" in the city of Columbus Ohio? Why not choose Cleveland Ohio where one has port access with an existing route to Europe? Fabs are international affairs, no matter where they're rooted, because just to keep the place running one needs a constant stream of parts from everywhere. It seems like being in a sea/rail/truck hub would be a logistics advantage. [1] ht…

> Does anyone know why Intel would want to build a "mega-site" in the city of Columbus Ohio? My guess would be access to talent and costs. Columbus is more than 2x bigger than Cleveland. Building cars is also an international affair and we see those plants all over the place.

> Building cars is also an international affair and we see those plants all over the place

I moved from the Bay Area to Columbus Ohio and, funny enough, there’s a Honda factory about 30 minutes outside of downtown and 45 from the airport.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#105

Post by qsmi »

7952 wrote: post #87
qsmi wrote: post #67

Does anyone know why Intel would want to build a "mega-site" in the city of Columbus Ohio? Why not choose Cleveland Ohio where one has port access with an existing route to Europe? Fabs are international affairs, no matter where they're rooted, because just to keep the place running one needs a constant stream of parts from everywhere. It seems like being in a sea/rail/truck hub would be a logistics advantage. [1] ht…

It has an international airport, intermodal rail freight depot and interstate highways. I would guess that raw materials can be transported by road or rail. Access to a waterway is sometimes needed for very heavy indivisible parts (not sure if this is commons for fabs) but that is unlikely to be a regular occurrence. Just drive it down the interstate with a police escort at 2am.

I am pretty shocked but I guess ASML delivers by 747. [1][2] But they do seem to know what they're doing. :)

"The current generation of EUV machines are already, to put it bluntly, kind of bonkers. Each one is roughly the size of a bus and costs $150 million. It contains 100,000 parts and 2 kilometers of cabling. Shipping the components requires 40 freight containers, three cargo planes, and 20 trucks."

[1] https://technical-news.net/euv-lithography-asml-delivers-100... [2] https://www.wired.com/story/asml-extreme-ultraviolet-lithogr...

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#106

Post by galangalalgol »

SemAntics0 wrote: post #97
flybrand wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not all AZ? Game theory between US states playing to get the most gov’t assistance? Finite pool of talent? Our plants are in rural areas and everyone is struggling to hire, from auto to bakeries.

The Great Lakes region has a surprising concentration of advanced manufacturing skillsets. With large manufacturing facilities with extremely stringent quality standards like a bleeding edge chip fab there's going to be a enormous need for people with traditional manufacturing-specific support skillsets that are simply not available in large quantities anywhere else in the US. If the current administration's support…

the only thing an ev actually needs chips for is charge controllers which can be old fab tech, and motor controllers which aren't normal silicon or tiny feature size. Tesla is using silicon carbide, and gallium arsenide will probably be next.

The Bollinger takes this route of minimalism. Ironically, an EV has less reliance on processing than a modern ICE vehicle.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#107

Post by bcrosby95 »

xxpor wrote: post #85
brewdad wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water in AZ is some of the cheapest in the country. At least until Lake Powell runs dry. Not a bad idea to spread the risks around however.

No wonder they grow all that lettuce in Yuma. Seems extremely stupid from a long term perspective, but what do I know. I'm just a software guy.

They grow lettuce in Yuma during the winter because it's warm enough to grow it there during the winter. Something around 90% of the USA's winter grown leafy greens produce comes from Yuma.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#109

Post by MathYouF »

BeetleB wrote: post #47
devwastaken wrote: post #30

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm guessing you've never been to Columbus and have little idea on what it's like there. Plenty of people go to top schools in that part of the country for their PhD. If they're willing to spend 5-7 years doing that, I can see them willing to work there. Also, if people moved to the middle of nowhere in New York to work for GF, or Burlington, VT - I think they'll be OK with Columbus.

I was born and partially raised in Columbus and Ohio in general. I defintiely left for the coast as soon as I could get a job that allowed it. So there's at least certain people they're describing the motivations of correctly.

That said, there are many who are happy to live there. I do wonder how many young and truly brilliant engineers are on that list, but maybe their presence won't be required on site? It's not an exciting place to be young and dynamic when compared to the big cities on the coasts.

The quality of life though, especially for someone raising a family and looking to build their nest egg, is great. Fresh air, relatively low crime, nice large yards and people with good Midwestern family values (might not be the "values" someone from San Fransisco would prioritize though).

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#110

Post by MrDunham »

m3kw9 wrote: post #75
qsmi wrote: post #67

Does anyone know why Intel would want to build a "mega-site" in the city of Columbus Ohio? Why not choose Cleveland Ohio where one has port access with an existing route to Europe? Fabs are international affairs, no matter where they're rooted, because just to keep the place running one needs a constant stream of parts from everywhere. It seems like being in a sea/rail/truck hub would be a logistics advantage. [1] ht…

Probably trucking it for 1 day isn't a big deal

Having moved to Columbus a couple years ago everyone loved to say that over 60% of the US population is within a one day drive of Columbus.

For the Bay Area readers the distance from Cleveland to Columbus is roughly the same as San Francisco to Sacramento

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