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Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

jasonstanford.substack.com

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Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#111

Post by ruined »

voltagedivider wrote: post #68
bsenftner wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It dismays me how many wealthy people I know that flat our refuse to tip. I end such friendships, as those people are monsters, waiting for an excuse to toss others away.

Any chance they're trying to end the practice of tipping for the betterment of workers in the long run?

next they'll try to end the practice of wage labor by not paying their employees

if that's the goal it needs to be a systemic solution, which generally means or legislation, company policy, or worker organizing. otherwise you're just going around hurting people. if you don't want to tip service workers, stay home, and don't order delivery.

remember, that scene in Reservoir Dogs was intended to demonstrate that Mr Pink is a shortsighted asshole.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#112

Post by ipython »

mhb wrote: post #62

There's a line out the door and workers are quitting because of low pay and bad working conditions? It seems like a former labor secretary would, instead of blogging about a static situation, understand that this is a self-correcting problem. If you have demand that you can't satisfy, you raise your price.

He’s not in the position to do that though. He’s a bartender. It’s clear he is advocating for higher wages and better conditions and even notes that the management of the theater tried to do so but the national chain leadership shot them down.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#113

Post by grumple »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #3
phlipski wrote: post #2

Excellent article. Shame so many wealthy people are cheap on tips. Always round up on the tip - the people relying on them need that extra $1-5 dollars more than you do. And if you can't afford those extra few dollars than what are you doing going out in the first place?

Shame so many people think it is a customer’s job to pay anything more than what they are asked to pay.

Yeah, but if you go to a place that provides service in the US, you're signing up for tipping, and you know it. If you don't like it, stay in and cook and make your own drinks.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#114

Post by DanTheManPR »

1121redblackgo wrote: post #63

I wonder why all the comments from this thread exclusively about tips when the article covered much much more than that. Interesting.

It suggests to me that a lot of HN commentators have only been on one side of the interaction between service workers and customers.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#115

Post by ryanmarsh »

gbrindisi wrote: post #8

I am always baffled when I read about the tip culture in the states. I find it so belittling for workers. It seems to incentivize a mentality of "the customer is always right", with workers putting an extra effort to always smile and be nice in the hope for a fair tip.

Ironically some expensive restaurants in the states add “gratuity” (like a service charge) to the bill and do not rely on tipping. This ensures their hard to recruit staff (sommeliers, skilled wait staff, etc…) can be paid enough to keep working there.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#116

Post by ajmurmann »

watwut wrote: post #109
mschuster91 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the usual "high school jobs" are not a problem when done by actual high schoolers as side gig to fund phone, beer, weed and gas. They don't need to pay rent, food or health insurance so what would be a non-living wage for an adult is luxury money for high schoolers. The problem is when actual adults who have to take care of adult things (rent, food, health insurance, car payments, ...) have to re…

> retirees follow the "societal contract" and actually go and retire instead of blocking places for the young to rise, Hard no here. If retirees feel strong enough to work, they are 100% entitled to improve their incomes. Especially when they don't have super generous pensions. Retiree struggling to pay pills and doctors is not something super exceptional. There is no social contract for them to stop working.

Also echoes a scarcity mindset whereas more market participants usually increase the pie.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#117

Post by bena »

peteradio wrote: post #27
gbrindisi wrote: post #8

I am always baffled when I read about the tip culture in the states. I find it so belittling for workers. It seems to incentivize a mentality of "the customer is always right", with workers putting an extra effort to always smile and be nice in the hope for a fair tip.

Restaurants can really barely afford to stay open in my (small) region, frankly they are seen as a service to a town not a net extractor. I know the finances behind my locals and can tell you they would not be able to stay open if workers were not also compensated via tips, and workers would not be there without the requisite pay. Tips end up being the difference between having a restaurant or not.

This is kind of a bullshit excuse.

Most restaurants can barely afford to stay open because most restaurants are run by people who have no business running a business. Hell, let's be honest, most businesses are run by people who have no business running a business. Most people don't really want to run a business, they want to do something else, but also get paid to do it.

There are plenty of small restaurants around the world that get by fine without tips and manage to pay their employees. But for some reason, the U.S. thinks this is somehow impossible.

Tipping is stupid. But since servers can make more money than on a set wage, they don't mind that the restaurant owners are essentially pitting their employees against their customers. You know what would increase the overall level of service? If the restaurant paid a decent wage to their employees and then removed the obligation from the customer to pay the restaurant's employees.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#118

Post by pjmorris »

peteradio wrote: post #78
soco wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand: me as a customer, whether I pay the menu + 20% tip, or I pay a menu 20% more expensive, I end up exactly the same. So why is for the restaurant owner better with tipping, instead of raising the prices 20% and putting an entry sign "no tipping needed here, we pay our workers right"? Even call the restaurant "no tipping place" if they wish. Can someone with experience in restaurant business e…

Menu: $5 burger Customer 1 (richy rich): $5 + $2 tip Customer 2 (workin man): $5 + $1 tip Customer 3 (poor man): $5 no tip Total: $18 Menu: $6 burger Customer 1 (richy rich): $6 + $1 tip Total: $7 You've reduced your customer based on true affordability and perceived affordability. This doesn't consider the margin on selling a single burger but generally you need to push product rather than sell master pieces.

Seems like you'd still have two customers (The burger is still in 'workin man''s budget), at 2/3 the food cost.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#119

Post by kickout »

dls2016 wrote: post #33
post_break wrote: post #15

Welcome to the terrible world of tipping. Subsidize the wages so the employer doesn't have to. I got out of my way to avoid any type of business or service that has tipping. It's getting so bad out there I've seen people talk about getting asked for a tip in a drive thru. Do I tip when I eat out? Yes. But that's cut down to a minimum now. I think we're headed towards a breaking point. Profits and cost of living canno…

> Welcome to the terrible world of tipping. While I agree, I remember bartenders making $10/hr + tips when I worked in a restaurant... in 1998. I could make $10/hr washing dishes (always the most hard-to-staff position) but wouldn't do so until after the restaurant died down because I made more busing tables with tips. Let's just call this type of employment what it is: wage slavery. People are used to there being a…

No way anyone outside of LA/SF/NYC were paying dishwashers 10+. I made 5.25 (i think) around that time period (98-00) washing dishes. It sucked ass

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#120

Post by [deleted] »

pitaj wrote: post #46
burkaman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is belittling, and almost nobody except restaurant owners likes it. It's sort of a game theory problem - if we could coordinate everyone to stop tipping, then restaurants would be forced to pay their workers normal wages, and almost everyone would be better off. But if I stop tipping, I'm just an asshole making no impact on society. I guess the only practical approach is to simultaneously keep tipping and push for…

I think you'll find that servers and bartenders are the most adimant supporters of tipping. They make a killing.

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