Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now • Hacker News Board

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#101

Post by irrational » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:21 PM UTC

mwhitfield wrote: post #74

sokoloff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Christmas Day a family bought over $100 worth of tickets and food two days after Christmas. > The tip? $2.00. How else would I read that? If it was $85 in tickets, $10 in served items, and $5 in tax, that’s a 20% tip in my book, but the author (a career politician) would like you to read it as a 2% tip.

Tickets are 10-15 dollars, the assumption here is that bill is mostly food.

$10-15 per person (closer to $15 in my experience). This was a family. If there were six of them, that would be $60-90 in tickets.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#102

Post by alistairSH » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:21 PM UTC

seneca wrote: post #36

lotsofpulp wrote: post #5

> Places like this rely on high school students for jobs like working the counter and delivering food. This sentence should be amended to “Places like this rely on people to accept low wages and low quality of life at work”. The whole article can basically be cut down to that sentence.

Well, the point is that these jobs don't create that much value. They're only worth so much, and the only skill required to do them is to put up with the misery. If you argue that all jobs must pay a "living wage", then jobs like this will just cease to exist and high-school kids won't be employable.

...these jobs don't create that much value...

Concessions account for 1/3 of AMC's revenue. $1.7 billion of AMC's $5.4 billion in 2019. That accounts for about 85% of their profit.

https://qz.com/2006440/amc-says-moviegoers-are-eating-a-lot-...

https://business.time.com/2009/12/07/movie-theaters-make-85-...

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#103

Post by corin_ » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #23

danaris wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, way to be incredibly classist. "If you can't afford to support someone else, why are you treating yourself to a luxury of any kind?" Everyone needs luxuries sometimes. The solution to tipped employees not getting enough money is not to bully people who can't comfortably afford higher tips out of going out; it's to a) encourage unionization, b) eliminate the separate "tipped minimum wage", and c) raise the minimum…

> Everyone needs luxuries sometimes. Then by definition that's not a luxury?

You're confusing the definition of a singular thing with the group of things.

For example, apples are a luxury in that nobody needs them to live (and the same can be said of any single food source - and therefore whether or not we consider something a luxury comes down to its availability and cost, nothing to do with champagne being more or less "needed" than beer), but they are also part of a bigger group we call "food" that definitely is not a luxury.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#104

Post by EvRev » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

seneca wrote: post #36

lotsofpulp wrote: post #5

> Places like this rely on high school students for jobs like working the counter and delivering food. This sentence should be amended to “Places like this rely on people to accept low wages and low quality of life at work”. The whole article can basically be cut down to that sentence.

Well, the point is that these jobs don't create that much value. They're only worth so much, and the only skill required to do them is to put up with the misery. If you argue that all jobs must pay a "living wage", then jobs like this will just cease to exist and high-school kids won't be employable.

The value these jobs create is the fabric of modern society. To quote the article, "Just shut up Mom, it's Christmas." Not saying they should be paid as much as doctors, but without these normal things that were lost during the 2020 shutdown I suspect that the protesting/looting would become more prevalent.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#105

Post by giantg2 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:23 PM UTC

"The myth that Americans, and especially younger Americans, aren’t willing to work is flat wrong."

It's not really a myth, but also can't be universally applied. When a very large percentage of jobs are like this, there's not much alternative. It's you want to work and deal with it, or you don't want to work. Option 3 would be that you want to work a "good" job, but good luck finding one!

People don't want to work shitty jobs. I'm a software dev and I'm tired of the corporate BS and lies. I don't want to work. If this is a "good" job then I don't have hope that anything will be better. I can't wait to retire.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#106

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:23 PM UTC

gbrindisi wrote: post #8

I am always baffled when I read about the tip culture in the states. I find it so belittling for workers. It seems to incentivize a mentality of "the customer is always right", with workers putting an extra effort to always smile and be nice in the hope for a fair tip.

And god help you if you don't tip. Searching the web reveals horror stories of food tampering and deliberately bad service. Imagine if you're from a culture where tipping doesn't exist and you simply don't know that you're supposed to leave some extra percentage for the employee.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#107

Post by KeAShizukuTio » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

post_break wrote: post #15

Welcome to the terrible world of tipping. Subsidize the wages so the employer doesn't have to. I got out of my way to avoid any type of business or service that has tipping. It's getting so bad out there I've seen people talk about getting asked for a tip in a drive thru. Do I tip when I eat out? Yes. But that's cut down to a minimum now. I think we're headed towards a breaking point. Profits and cost of living canno…

No post body was provided.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#108

Post by alistairSH » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

mhb wrote: post #62

There's a line out the door and workers are quitting because of low pay and bad working conditions? It seems like a former labor secretary would, instead of blogging about a static situation, understand that this is a self-correcting problem. If you have demand that you can't satisfy, you raise your price.

If you have demand that you can't satisfy, you raise your price.

But not before bitching high and low about lazy workers and trying to convince Uncle Sam to force the wage slaves to return to work.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#109

Post by watwut » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #10

lotsofpulp wrote: post #5

> Places like this rely on high school students for jobs like working the counter and delivering food. This sentence should be amended to “Places like this rely on people to accept low wages and low quality of life at work”. The whole article can basically be cut down to that sentence.

For what it's worth, the usual "high school jobs" are not a problem when done by actual high schoolers as side gig to fund phone, beer, weed and gas. They don't need to pay rent, food or health insurance so what would be a non-living wage for an adult is luxury money for high schoolers. The problem is when actual adults who have to take care of adult things (rent, food, health insurance, car payments, ...) have to re…

> retirees follow the "societal contract" and actually go and retire instead of blocking places for the young to rise,

Hard no here. If retirees feel strong enough to work, they are 100% entitled to improve their incomes. Especially when they don't have super generous pensions.

Retiree struggling to pay pills and doctors is not something super exceptional. There is no social contract for them to stop working.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#110

Post by ajmurmann » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:25 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #25

mschuster91 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the usual "high school jobs" are not a problem when done by actual high schoolers as side gig to fund phone, beer, weed and gas. They don't need to pay rent, food or health insurance so what would be a non-living wage for an adult is luxury money for high schoolers. The problem is when actual adults who have to take care of adult things (rent, food, health insurance, car payments, ...) have to re…

> The problem is when actual adults who have to take care of adult things (rent, food, health insurance, car payments, ...) have to resort to entry-level jobs as a result of economy crunches or various forms of discrimination. No, the problem is labor supply and demand curves have shifted, hence prices have shifted. People do not make business plans and budgets based on the number of high schoolers are available to h…

And when you ask for a pay increase because cost of living has gone up or complain that someone in another town that's similarly expensive earns more than you for the same role at the same company, you'll quickly hear that comp is based on cost of labor and not cost of living.