No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#431

Post by kstrauser » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

leonidasv wrote: post #370

kstrauser wrote: post #159

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

Well, media has been recently overwhelmed by studies showcasing the benefits of weed so that the disadvantages of using it appear to be lower or none at all, but that's not really the case. If smoked, you're smoking tar and volatile compounds that can harm the lungs, much like a regular cigarette - although you're probably not going to smoke a pack of 20 joints in a single day like the moderate-to-heavy smoker next d…

Those are all good points. I still think evidence shows that weed is likely the less harmful option of the two. In the spirit of harm reduction, if I had to choose one of them to start with, weed appears to be the rational choice. But there’s no one telling me I have to use either of them.

Coffee is still my favorite drug, and I’ll fight for that one.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#432

Post by tsol » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #398

Counter-point: Alcohol was key in the creation of the United States. "In the drink, a dream; and in the dream, a spark."[1] "...the Founding Fathers despised each other. Like, these bros couldn’t stand the sight of one another and it’s a goddamn miracle our country ever came to be, that’s how much they hated one another."[2] In 1787, two days before they signed off on the Constitution, the 55 delegates to the Constit…

How is that a counter to to claims about its health effects? They're not saying alcohol has no positives and it's for terrible people, just that it has negative effects on health.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#433

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

tcskeptic wrote: post #83

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

Yes but a moderate amount with good friends is great for my soul.

I was thinking about this recently watching a conversation between Lex Fridman and Bryan Johnson and it struck me that there is a huge difference in optimizing lifestyle choices for human physical and mental performance, and optimizing lifestyle choices for human flourishing, or even say joy and wonder. I feel like there is this growing misunderstanding that the "optimal" human is one that can be the most productive…

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#434

Post by asdf_snar » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:04 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #203

asdf_snar wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then at some point people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. It feels like this question is disingenuous. You don't need fire starter to start a fire either, but wouldn't it be silly to conclude fire starter doesn't make starting a fire easier? Moderate alcohol consumption in an intimate environment is a lot of fun. Put differently, if alcohol didn't present such s…

I don’t understand your comparison with a fire. Your claim that moderate alcohol consumption makes things more fun is part of the point of my post. Is this actually true, or just a rationalization of people who already drink? No judgement for those who do drink, by the way.

Before I continue, I think it's also important to note different people metabolize alcohol differently and feel its effects differently. Many Russians can take care of 0,5L of vodka in one sitting and still function. (Russian men aged roughly 20-45 also die from alcohol at absurdly high rates.) So as with all things, our discussion is purely a subjective one -- I find it useful, though, as it helps me analyze my own drinking habits.

> Your claim that moderate alcohol consumption makes things more fun is part of the point of my post. Is this actually true, or just a rationalization of people who already drink?

Right. It's a good question, and I don't know the answer, and I've tried hard to introspect and distinguish between rationalizing and it being true.

As someone pointed out above, the fire starter analogy is better than one might think -- if you are enlightened enough, you don't need alcohol to start a fire. In my experience, though, few things open up a conversation with a stranger as quickly as a little alcohol. I'm not saying I've never had an intimate conversation with a stranger in which we both showed vulnerability without alcohol. But the psychoactive aspect of intoxication makes those conversations with alcohol more memorable, stranger or closest friend. I've tried hard to determine whether I'm just fooling myself, or if alcohol is actually making something "funner". My conclusion is that if I am fooling myself, the trick is good enough that I'll probably never figure it out.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#435

Post by weedontwee » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:04 PM UTC

devoutsalsa wrote: post #178

"I knew a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson

"You're gonna feel like a damn fool, laying out at that hospital, dying from nothing!" - Redd Foxx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6grI16niGXA

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#436

Post by rcpt » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

the_only_law wrote: post #223

Alex3917 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that the average smoker dies at 80, and the average alcoholic dies at 35.

Source? 35 feels realllly young, but I guess it depends on what’s considered an “average” alcoholic. If someone is spending their entire day drinking string liquors everyday, I can maybe see that.

80 sounds old for smoking to.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#437

Post by AlwaysRock » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

Everyone knows this. Some choose to believe the 1 or 2 debunked and unrepeatable studies that show small amounts of alcohol is good for you rather than the mountain of evidence that says it isnt.

If you want to drink alcohol, that is fine. But pretending its healthy in some way is lying to yourself.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#438

Post by b3morales » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #310

P_I_Staker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it’s really a myth that science is changing so much. You can look at dietary recommendations from the 70s, and they’re fine. Eat your plants and don’t eat garbage. The food pyramid was more a product of lobbying than science. The doctors advice wasn't that bad, although there would be less knowledge of the dangers of refined carbs. People want it to be true that the doctors don’t know what they’re doing, but it…

Honestly, I find it baffling when people think that doctors know what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition. Maybe things have changed in recent years, and that would be great, but in my experience and from the anecdotes of others, my conception of what doctors understand is the opposite of what you describe. Granted, I do agree that the science actually hasn't changed that much , and that doctors who do r…

> People want their doctors to not know what they're doing?

No, you're right, people who go to a doctor certainly don't want their individual physician to be incompetent. I believe parent was talking about a less specific, somewhat "anti-establishment" point of view. Folks who feel that they've been failed by medical doctors, for example -- a chronic condition that they can't get help with. Or people who have other reasons to believe that the medical profession is ossified, or beholden to interests that don't serve patients -- critiques of that sort.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#439

Post by kstrauser » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

allturtles wrote: post #430

kstrauser wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of ways to consume weed that don’t have those drawbacks. There’s a dispensary around the block from me, and even though I don’t use it, I went in to look around to see what our new neighborhood shop looked like. They had a wide selection of edible candies, vape pens, and even drinks. It looks like it’d be very easy to get a consistent dose without burning anything. I know how much alcohol I can drink t…

Fair point, I was thinking of just smoking, and not other forms of consumption.

I get it. When I think of weed, my first mental image is still of someone passing a joint or bong around. I was surprised at how many measured dose options there were, though. Want a bag of watermelon gummy candies with X mg of THC? They’ve got you covered.

I do wonder how much variance there is in those. Is that 5.0 mg += .1mg, or “eh, about 5 on average”. It’s easy to dose alcohol as you know how much alcohol is in an ounce of whisky. If you find one that’s stronger than another, your taste buds will let you know quickly.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#440

Post by iKlsR » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #420

1970-01-01 wrote: post #398

Counter-point: Alcohol was key in the creation of the United States. "In the drink, a dream; and in the dream, a spark."[1] "...the Founding Fathers despised each other. Like, these bros couldn’t stand the sight of one another and it’s a goddamn miracle our country ever came to be, that’s how much they hated one another."[2] In 1787, two days before they signed off on the Constitution, the 55 delegates to the Constit…

>Counter-point: Alcohol was key in the creation of the United States. Some people theorize it was one of the main driving forces for agriculture and civilization itself. https://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2018/09/12/crafting...

A bit related, I can't remember the exact details but I read or watched somewhere recently that it was key in taking over some regions. They would gift village chiefs alcohol and have them sign away rights to their land under the influence.