No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#171

Post by bastardoperator » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

shafyy wrote: post #103

pkulak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

Smoking is for sure worse than alcohol consumption: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-deaths-by-risk-... Global yearly deaths by smoking: 7.1 million Global yearly deaths by alcohol usage: 2.84 million

While I don't disagree with smoking being extremely harmful, most people addicted to nicotine can still function regularly. Regardless of which kills more, they both kill via proxy and that's where I see the biggest issue for both of them. Interestingly enough I've found that many people smoke when they're drinking.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#172

Post by nradov » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:06 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #69

lotsofpulp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consistency in legal matters seems like a good and necessary thing for ensuring fairness. What is the basis for Emerson’s quote to apply here?

I’m generally pro-legalization, but there are many things that we hypothesize are safe but do not know the long-term effects of and, within living memory, have discovered that many things initially thought safe were not. People were taking X-ray images of shoe fit in department stores, we used thalidomide to treat morning sickness, etc. What society says is legal has an effect on how it is perceived and how frequentl…

That is faulty logic. We hypothesize that mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 are safe but do not know the long term effects. Why should we exercise conservatism for some drugs but not for vaccines?

To be clear, I'm just using that as an example of logical inconsistency and I recommend that everyone eligible protect themselves by getting vaccinated. I also think that all recreational drugs should be legalized (or at least decriminalized) because regardless of the potential long-term effects the failed war on (some) drugs is causing far more harm than the drugs themselves.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#173

Post by robbick » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:06 PM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

Yes but a moderate amount with good friends is great for my soul.

Indeed, it is always good to know the science but we should balance that against the benefits. I like this quote from David Spiegelhalter[0]

"Given the pleasure presumably associated with moderate drinking, claiming there is no 'safe' level does not seem an argument for abstention," he said.

"There is no safe level of driving, but the government does not recommend that people avoid driving.

"Come to think of it, there is no safe level of living, but nobody would recommend abstention."

[0]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45283401

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#174

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:06 PM UTC

tcskeptic wrote: post #83

DamnYuppie wrote: post #10

Yes but a moderate amount with good friends is great for my soul.

I was thinking about this recently watching a conversation between Lex Fridman and Bryan Johnson and it struck me that there is a huge difference in optimizing lifestyle choices for human physical and mental performance, and optimizing lifestyle choices for human flourishing, or even say joy and wonder. I feel like there is this growing misunderstanding that the "optimal" human is one that can be the most productive…

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#175

Post by reverend_gonzo » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:06 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #133

BirAdam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All drugs should be decriminalized. Shooting people in drug raids is far worse for those people than are the drugs. Likewise, locking people in cages with other misfits, criminals, malcontents, and addicts isn’t smart (especially considering that drugs are in the prisons too). If the goal is truly harm reduction, people need to simply work to convince drug users to not use drugs (whether those are opioids, alcohol, t…

Slippery slope. What happens when a drug addict looking his next fix attacks someone? This is why we have drug laws to start with, was to protect people. There are no simple answers here.

Assault is already a crime.

What happens when a person robs someone so he can buy a new car? You don’t outlaw cars.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#176

Post by tikkabhuna » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #133

BirAdam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All drugs should be decriminalized. Shooting people in drug raids is far worse for those people than are the drugs. Likewise, locking people in cages with other misfits, criminals, malcontents, and addicts isn’t smart (especially considering that drugs are in the prisons too). If the goal is truly harm reduction, people need to simply work to convince drug users to not use drugs (whether those are opioids, alcohol, t…

Slippery slope. What happens when a drug addict looking his next fix attacks someone? This is why we have drug laws to start with, was to protect people. There are no simple answers here.

I don't believe the poster above is saying that there should be no intervention, they're saying they shouldn't be criminally prosecuted.

There should be a non-criminal route for helping drug addicts that doesn't result in prison.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#177

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #21

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#178

Post by devoutsalsa » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

"I knew a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#179

Post by yalogin » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

I think most people know this on some level. Alcohol cannot be good for the body. However, society encourages and even shames people that don't drink to an extreme degree that people go with the herd on this. Its going to be impossible to beat and turn around that societal pressure and acceptance.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#180

Post by throwaway0a5e » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #101

cies wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a constitutional law prohibiting all victimless crime or this insanity will never end.

Most victimless crimes have victims, they’re just hard to singularly identify.

No. Not even close.

Most victimless crimes have literally no victim. There is no victim without some sort of harm. The reason we have speed limits and drugs are illegal is because if you go overboard enough with them there is a high likelihood of harm. In the vast majority of cases people don't go overboard and there is no actual victim though. These things are crimes because our system of justice is not good at punishing people for "going overboard" with the consistency and fairness we desire.