No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#41

Post by michaelmior » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #21

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

The comment never claimed that alcohol is worse than synthetic opioids or cigarettes. The comment stated it is one of the worst drugs.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#42

Post by endisneigh » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

Of course it isn’t. Drink water. Unfortunately some people believe they can’t enjoy themselves without alcohol.

It’s curious:

- babies have fun without drinking

- kids have fun without drinking

- some teens have fun without drinking

Then at some point some people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened.

Edit: explicitly clarifying that I’m only talking about some people here

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#43

Post by fleddr » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

What is the value of "consistency" in this matter?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#44

Post by asteroidp » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #21

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

The two are actually on par with each other

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#45

Post by neom » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #30

slackfan wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm not getting that kind of attitude from this document. It seems to just be a holistic counterpoint to the "common knowledge" that "a little bit of alcohol can be good for the heart". What is this intense negativity you're sarcastically paraphrasing?

I used this argument to myself for years so I could ignore my alcoholism. Well if the French and Italians drink as much wine as they do, a bottle or 4 a day is probably good for me.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#46

Post by cies » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

> to at least be consistent.

No not be a total joke as a gov't. I love the stories on "refer scare" and the prohibition (which has become some big historical period like the renaissance, merely by retarded gov't policy).

And not like we're done with it. New Zealand is considering to ban tobacco sales to the next generation. What could probably go wrong with that? Is age discrimination now all of a sudden okay? (this is not about prohibiting sales to kids -- which im cool with obviously -- but also to adults of the next generations, when they are of age).

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#47

Post by infogulch » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

greenpresident wrote: post #19

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

David Nutt did important work in this area. See for example his scale of drug harmfulness here: (Edit: see archive link below) And https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067361...

That pdf 403's. Here's an archive.org snapshot: https://web.archive.org/web/20201112012236/http://dobrochan....

Alcohol is one place behind street meth in Figure 1. Damn.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#48

Post by greenpresident » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #21

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

Parent is most likely basing their comment on the work of David Nutt, see my other comment on this thread.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#49

Post by cies » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #46

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

> to at least be consistent. No not be a total joke as a gov't. I love the stories on "refer scare" and the prohibition (which has become some big historical period like the renaissance, merely by retarded gov't policy). And not like we're done with it. New Zealand is considering to ban tobacco sales to the next generation. What could probably go wrong with that? Is age discrimination now all of a sudden okay? (this…

We need a constitutional law prohibiting all victimless crime or this insanity will never end.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#50

Post by wizzwizz4 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #32

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. Please do not decide policy using this kind of reasoning. Maybe we should legalise more stuff, but “worse things are legal” is not a good reason. > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. — Ralph Waldo…

Consistency in legal matters seems like a good and necessary thing for ensuring fairness. What is the basis for Emerson’s quote to apply here?

Suppose the law states that David Haroldson (or the Glorious Leader, or foreign diplomats) cannot be convicted of any crime. That's inconsistent, (perhaps) arbitrary, and unfair. Yet, it would be foolish to extend this conviction-immunity to everybody.