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A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

latimes.com

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Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#21
post #12

Short answer is “yes”. It’s the same way a homeowner can be responsible if they negligently leave some issues on their property and a person falls to their death. The ultimate responsibility is the person behind the wheel. That said, I’d argue Tesla is also liable. To what extent I don’t know, but it was clearly a contributing factor.

Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.

I would think generally yes. It's the Pilot's job to supervise the autopilot.

Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#22

Short answer is “yes”. It’s the same way a homeowner can be responsible if they negligently leave some issues on their property and a person falls to their death. The ultimate responsibility is the person behind the wheel. That said, I’d argue Tesla is also liable. To what extent I don’t know, but it was clearly a contributing factor.

Can you explain how Tesla is liable? It is made clear to the driver (both in the manual and at activation of Autopilot) that they remain the final authority in control of the vehicle, and at the time of the accident, the Tesla software build did not support detection and actioning of stop lights nor stop signs.

Are folks going to sue GM and Ford when people don't pay attention when their versions of driver assist don't stop the car for an obstacle or traffic signal? Probably, but that's because America is highly litigious and has lost the concept of personal responsibility. The odds of winning are low.

(disclosure: tesla owner with >50k miles of Autopilot [EAP] use)

Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#24
post #12

Short answer is “yes”. It’s the same way a homeowner can be responsible if they negligently leave some issues on their property and a person falls to their death. The ultimate responsibility is the person behind the wheel. That said, I’d argue Tesla is also liable. To what extent I don’t know, but it was clearly a contributing factor.

Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.

It's probably evaluated on a case-by-case basis depending on how much the investigation determines it was caused by technical issues and pilot negligence.

Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#25
I think the answer's yes, and it's something that would make me leary of relying on a car's automated systems for anything safety related. Ultimately if I'm going to be criminally liable in a crash caused by my car, I'd like to retain control of what's going on.

The idea that a software bug could land me in jail for manslaughter, is not one I'm a fan of.

Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#26
> “It certainly makes us, all of a sudden, not become so complacent in the use of these things that we forget about the fact that we’re the ones that are responsible — not only for our own safety but for the safety of others.”

Well that is the thing here. There is not proper driver monitoring on these cars and it allows both autopilot and FSD systems to be open to abuse to cause crashes like this given that the drivers have become too complacent and convinced that these cars drive themselves which Tesla's falsely advertises.

So yes. Guilty as charged. Both features of autopilot and FSD allow drivers like this one to become complacent with the system.

Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#27

Yes. > Should Riad be found guilty, “it’s going to send shivers up and down everybody’s spine who has one of these vehicles and realizes, ‘Hey, I’m the one that’s responsible,’” Duh. There's plenty of warnings, you are still responsible and your attention is required at all times to intervene when needed. Of course, there are going to be plenty of situations where it will be too late for a human to intervene. Those a…

If you're reversing with the help of a sensor that's always worked before, but this time the sensor fails and you hit someone, it is still your responsibility. On the other hand, if your brakes fail despite you having had a recent service, that wouldn't be your fault. I'm not sure where the dividing line is between those two issues.

Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#28
post #12

Short answer is “yes”. It’s the same way a homeowner can be responsible if they negligently leave some issues on their property and a person falls to their death. The ultimate responsibility is the person behind the wheel. That said, I’d argue Tesla is also liable. To what extent I don’t know, but it was clearly a contributing factor.

Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.

Yes. The pilot in command is ultimately responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft. See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html... for more information.

Having said that, aircraft pilots are very highly trained relative to automobile drivers and must pass periodic medical and proficiency exams to maintain their flight status. Whereas anyone (loosely speaking) can buy a Tesla and just start driving it.

Re: A Tesla on autopilot killed two people. Is the driver guilty of manslaughter?

#30
post #12

Short answer is “yes”. It’s the same way a homeowner can be responsible if they negligently leave some issues on their property and a person falls to their death. The ultimate responsibility is the person behind the wheel. That said, I’d argue Tesla is also liable. To what extent I don’t know, but it was clearly a contributing factor.

Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.

Do autopilots in planes "fly themselves no human input at all"? Because that's what Teslas are doing since 2016, according to Elon Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/789019145853513729
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