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AI could end foreign-language subtitles

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Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#171

Post by fomine3 »

hiptobecubic wrote: post #139
aeturnum wrote: post #3

This would be a lovely option to have and I find it hilarious that anyone imagines that subtitles are some kind of problem we are trying to get out of. Adding text to movies has a huge array of advantages: it preserves the original performances, it makes the dialog accessible to people with hearing or auditory processing disabilities, they can be multiplexed in a way that audio cannot, etc. Obviously it would be wond…

I don't know. I'm not sure it's really possible to overestimate how many people hate reading and view it as a chore. Even without that not-so-charitable interpretation, there is still the "TV is on but I'm focused on something else" use case. Subtitles don't work at all for that.

It may getting work with AR grasses. I can't wait.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#172

Post by meheleventyone »

jack_pp wrote: post #168
aeturnum wrote: post #3

This would be a lovely option to have and I find it hilarious that anyone imagines that subtitles are some kind of problem we are trying to get out of. Adding text to movies has a huge array of advantages: it preserves the original performances, it makes the dialog accessible to people with hearing or auditory processing disabilities, they can be multiplexed in a way that audio cannot, etc. Obviously it would be wond…

It might seem to you but producers care about data and I do not find it hard to believe people prefer dubbing to subtitles. I believe most people prefer audio input to text because it requires far less of their attention. You would be surprised how many people watch / listen to shows while doing something else and thus not giving the show their full attention. I'm guilty of this with podcasts.

Maybe a system of always pandering to the lowest common denominator isn’t all it’s cracked up to be?

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#173

Post by ivegotnoaccount »

derefr wrote: post #145
derekp7 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with subtitles is the same reason I could never enjoy comics / graphic novels. I can either read and process the text, or look at / process the action (pictures). For me it is the same thing as trying to pay attention to two conference calls at the same time with a phone in each ear (is it just me that can't do this?). And it isn't just the mental processing, the rest of the screen sort of disappea…

I think this is why people mostly talk about watching foreign-language animated works and soap operas/dramas: dramas will have either action or talking heads, but not usually both; and animation can be paced stylistically, so that each shot lasts long enough "by design" to read the subtitles, even when it would be over in a split second in reality. But I can't imagine watching, say, a foreign live-action sketch comed…

At least in Japan's case, I highly doubt the pace is «paced stylistically, so that each shot lasts long enough "by design" to read the subtitles».

If anything, they are usually at the other end of the spectrum, in that most local releases don't even include japanese subtitles (To be frank, I'm quite surprised this is even legal, considering the impact on deaf people)

So more than for artistic reasons, I think it's more often in order to lower the number of quality key frames required, so budget reasons.

I also can think of several shows that achieved significant fanbase in contexts where keeping an eye off the subtitles can be hard, while still being appreciated for their visuals: Tatami Galaxy, Monogatari Series...

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#174

Post by netfortius »

j4yav wrote: post #166
Gigachad wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, reading the subtitles takes away from the experience much more than any kind of loss in authenticity does. Keeping my eyes on the text takes away from the visual.

I wonder if that’s something you could get better at with practice? When I watch subtitled movies or shows I watch the show and read the text with my peripheral vision. But I watch a lot of foreign media, so I may have gotten used to doing that. I can say for sure though that my eyes are not focused on the text while watching.

Absolutely! I grew up in a country with fairly high rate of literacy, which derived subtitles usage almost 100%, and reading them while enjoying the original voices behave second nature, and what's never fully translatable led to learning foreign languages specifics. Even today, so many years later, I like my movies with subtitles, and even when spoken language is same with the subtitles one.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#175

Post by distances »

pen2l wrote: post #66
commandlinefan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> subtitles are some kind of problem Heck, they're not even limited to foreign languages. I put them on in English because I'm starting to lose my hearing now in my late 40's and if I turn up the volume loud enough that I can hear the dialogue ok, the sound effects would be so loud they'd set off the neighbor's car alarm.

I frequently choose not to watch films because I can't find the right subtitles for them. They are an absolute boon for those interested in learning foreign languages.

And I refuse to watch movies/series without English subtitles, even if the original language is English. I too often miss something the actors say and get majorly annoyed. Could well be something about my hearing.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#176

Post by distances »

maroonblazer wrote: post #78
epolanski wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

many reasons to use them: - family is sleeping so you keep volume low - hard to understand accents or lingo - bad audio mixing or bad audio systems that muffle words and rest of the sound

- You're a euro-, arab-, and/or, asia-phile (I'm in the U.S.) and the sound of the language further transports you to those parts of the world.

Yes, dubbing is the worst of both worlds obviously. But parent's point apply specifically to English subtitles over English content.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#177

Post by jack_pp »

meheleventyone wrote: post #172
jack_pp wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might seem to you but producers care about data and I do not find it hard to believe people prefer dubbing to subtitles. I believe most people prefer audio input to text because it requires far less of their attention. You would be surprised how many people watch / listen to shows while doing something else and thus not giving the show their full attention. I'm guilty of this with podcasts.

Maybe a system of always pandering to the lowest common denominator isn’t all it’s cracked up to be?

That's the most profitable system. It certainly doesn't produce the most quality. Just like making a tool that lasts a lifetime is not as profitable as making something that breaks. Maybe crowdfunding media content is the way to go for quality but I can certainly understand how public companies make decisions in their search for infinite profits.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#178

Post by distances »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #116
aeturnum wrote: post #3

This would be a lovely option to have and I find it hilarious that anyone imagines that subtitles are some kind of problem we are trying to get out of. Adding text to movies has a huge array of advantages: it preserves the original performances, it makes the dialog accessible to people with hearing or auditory processing disabilities, they can be multiplexed in a way that audio cannot, etc. Obviously it would be wond…

Then you're simply not thinking about it deeply enough. There are plenty of shows that someone may want to watch but may not be able to invest 100% of my attention watching that show, therefore with a show dubbed in their native language, they can still have the show in the background while being able to listen to the audio. With subtitles one has to constantly be looking at the actual show itself. Furthermore if one…

This use case is totally foreign to me. If I can't concentrate, I stop the show and continue some other time. Someone wants to check their phone or visit the loo? Pause the show. Linear television is history after all.

That said, other people can obviously have their own preferences. Just sounds so weird to me.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#179

Post by distances »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #167

AI is also able to create sub titles. So, people will have a choice. Many people prefer subtitles. Dubbing movies is common in big countries where the locals speak nothing else than their own language. Here in Germany, you have to pay attention if you go to the cinema but they do have original language movies as well. Lots of Germans go to see those instead of the badly dubbed versions. I tossed out my TV ages ago be…

> Netflix solves this by offering German sub titles.

This is my pet peeve about streaming services. Why would they have only German subtitles in Germany? The licensing costs of all major languages can't be prohibitive. I only watch content that has English subtitles -- Netflix has thankfully improved on including them, but otherwise you're mostly out of luck. Even Blu-rays need to be imported if you want to have English subtitles on English movies!

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#180

Post by krageon »

shkkmo wrote: post #103
tompetry wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very surprised more people watched the dubbed version of Squid Game over the subtitles. I saw a friend watching the dubbed version and to me it didn't "preserve the original performances" as you say. Surprised subtitles are a barrier, I enjoy them personally, but I guess they have the data to know. I have tested out services that translate your "own voice" to another language and it was pretty cool, although I c…

I started watching Squid Game with my brothers' girlfriend and gently suggested that we should use subtitles and the original audio. It took a couple of episodes, but some of those dubbing performances are pretty rough and when she did decide to switch she immediately agreed how much better it was. The only downside is you have to actually _watch_ the show rather that staring at your phone most of the time...

> brothers' girlfriend

You have multiple brothers with one girlfriend? I understand this is not likely, but it's such an interesting concept I kind of want it to be true.

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