AI could end foreign-language subtitles • Hacker News Board

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#161

Post by Taywee » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:56 AM UTC

derekp7 wrote: post #132

creakingstairs wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I've moved to New Zealand, I was taken aback at how many people just could not stand subtitles. This and your mention about 'barrier' reminded me of Bong Joon Ho (director of Parasite) calling this out: "Once you overcome the 1-inch-tall barrier of subtitles, you will be introduced to so many more amazing films."

The problem I have with subtitles is the same reason I could never enjoy comics / graphic novels. I can either read and process the text, or look at / process the action (pictures). For me it is the same thing as trying to pay attention to two conference calls at the same time with a phone in each ear (is it just me that can't do this?). And it isn't just the mental processing, the rest of the screen sort of disappea…

Maybe it's better if you grew up doing it. I grew up watching Chinese action films with subtitles, and it's pretty easy for me to watch the screen like normal and read the subtitles in my peripheral vision without looking directly at them at all.

I figure most people could probably do it with enough practice, though.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#162

Post by devmor » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 5:57 AM UTC

creakingstairs wrote: post #91

nkozyra wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The default of you load it is dubbed, right? I don't think so, at least not for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is probably some A/B testing going on for this setting.

It's based on previous user preference. My wife and I watch everything subbed and eventually netflix just defaulted to it.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#163

Post by estebarb » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:00 AM UTC

As a programmer I think that this is awesome. But... I'm also thinking that we may be missing opportunities.

For example, I prefer to see subtitled movies in their original language (I'm a Spanish native speaker). But there are some dubs that are awesome, even better than the original: for example, Shrek. I'm concerned that eventually studios may just throw the script through Google translate and call it a day.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#164

Post by Zenst » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:11 AM UTC

Whilst this is good, as long as it is an option and the user still has the choice to have the original language with subtitles then great. Many enjoy films in other languages they don't fully understand for many reasons, learning the language, nuance of the language and tonality, many things. After all, a Shakespeare love scene in Klingon is just not going to cut the ambience like many other languages.

But one thing that bugs me, why is it that even today - we have to have programs with a hard-overlay of sign language interpreter in a you have it if you want it or not and the selection is limited. For those who depend upon such sign language, wouldn't it be great if they could watch anything and some AI would do the sign language for them. You would of thought that such a task would be easy, and the market is there but yet, it seems to elude us.

So my hope is that whilst this is useful, it may well open up avenues like the above in which these tools can be leveraged in more practical ways for a group of users who in effect have what they can and can not enjoy, somewhat overly limited as they are at the mercy and whims of the broadcasters who in many instances, only do them to quota tick some regulation put in place to at least not totally shut out a group of people who can't hear at all.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#165

Post by pxx » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:21 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #148

commandlinefan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> subtitles are some kind of problem Heck, they're not even limited to foreign languages. I put them on in English because I'm starting to lose my hearing now in my late 40's and if I turn up the volume loud enough that I can hear the dialogue ok, the sound effects would be so loud they'd set off the neighbor's car alarm.

If you can afford it, buy a speaker system with at least a dedicated center channel. Dialog is almost always mixed to the center channel in 5.1/7.1 mixes. Which means that you can just turn up the gain on the center channel speaker, while leaving everything else down. The result is magical — it's like turning down the "background music" slider in a video game :)

You don't even need to set up the surround speakers. Having a 3.1 setup has improved my enjoyment of TV and movies substantially. My understanding is most if not all receivers will downmix the surround into your L and R channels.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#166

Post by j4yav » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:22 AM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #146

tompetry wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very surprised more people watched the dubbed version of Squid Game over the subtitles. I saw a friend watching the dubbed version and to me it didn't "preserve the original performances" as you say. Surprised subtitles are a barrier, I enjoy them personally, but I guess they have the data to know. I have tested out services that translate your "own voice" to another language and it was pretty cool, although I c…

For me, reading the subtitles takes away from the experience much more than any kind of loss in authenticity does. Keeping my eyes on the text takes away from the visual.

I wonder if that’s something you could get better at with practice? When I watch subtitled movies or shows I watch the show and read the text with my peripheral vision. But I watch a lot of foreign media, so I may have gotten used to doing that. I can say for sure though that my eyes are not focused on the text while watching.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#167

Post by jillesvangurp » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:25 AM UTC

AI is also able to create sub titles. So, people will have a choice. Many people prefer subtitles.

Dubbing movies is common in big countries where the locals speak nothing else than their own language. Here in Germany, you have to pay attention if you go to the cinema but they do have original language movies as well. Lots of Germans go to see those instead of the badly dubbed versions. I tossed out my TV ages ago because I don't speak German very well and don't like watching dubbed content. Especially if that content is originally in English which I actually can understand.

One annoyance with the local netflix here is that while they have most content with the original sound track, they often swap out a lot of the text in these movies with German text. E.g. movie fragments showing a news paper or somebody's text messages, or the famous rolling text in star wars. And of course a lot of American movies or series sometimes feature people not speaking English. Netflix solves this by offering German sub titles. And sometimes those are actually baked into the movie.

Par of the issue is that there's a big dubbing industry that is incentivized to keep on dubbing everything whether people like it or not. AI will decimate how profitable that business is.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#168

Post by jack_pp » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:42 AM UTC

aeturnum wrote: post #3

This would be a lovely option to have and I find it hilarious that anyone imagines that subtitles are some kind of problem we are trying to get out of. Adding text to movies has a huge array of advantages: it preserves the original performances, it makes the dialog accessible to people with hearing or auditory processing disabilities, they can be multiplexed in a way that audio cannot, etc. Obviously it would be wond…

It might seem to you but producers care about data and I do not find it hard to believe people prefer dubbing to subtitles. I believe most people prefer audio input to text because it requires far less of their attention. You would be surprised how many people watch / listen to shows while doing something else and thus not giving the show their full attention. I'm guilty of this with podcasts.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#169

Post by j7ake » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:44 AM UTC

Even as a native English speaker, I prefer watching English speaking shows with English subtitles.

I find I don’t need the volume as loud and I get retain more of the dialogue.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#170

Post by Someone » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 6:47 AM UTC

aeturnum wrote: post #3

This would be a lovely option to have and I find it hilarious that anyone imagines that subtitles are some kind of problem we are trying to get out of. Adding text to movies has a huge array of advantages: it preserves the original performances, it makes the dialog accessible to people with hearing or auditory processing disabilities, they can be multiplexed in a way that audio cannot, etc. Obviously it would be wond…

I’m in the “pro subtitles” camp, too, but they too have disadvantages. By changing part of the screen, they don’t preserve the original performance, either (but IMO, that’s a lesser problem than dubbing) and their timing often is off. You’ll read a joke before or after it’s made, may know somebody gets shot before it happens, etc. I think aster readers will have a larger problem there.

They (obviously) also work less well for slower readers.