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1Password Has Raised $620M

blog.1password.com

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Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#671

Post by bigiain »

kjreact wrote: post #653
BoorishBears wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you had to word it in terms of 5 years just to make it sound substantial... It's 3 dollars a month. You could be conservative with tissue paper and make up the difference to your monthly budget... so how much cheaper can you get that cheaper than tissue paper and still expect the service to be around forever .

Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. Now many of us are software developers here on HN, so I understand the need to charge money for software. But I paid full price for 1Password6 years ago and I haven’t needed any updates to continue using it. Now the company refuses to sell a non-subscription service version…

> if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars

Can I interest you in a cloud license for ls? It’s clearly critical you your day to day work, surely $5 per month it reasonable for a too, you use so frequently???

(Im a long time 1pw user and vocal supporter. I’m now wondering how they are going to generate the expected return in this investment, because I can’t see any realistic avenues for that which aren’t likely to fuck me and everybody I’ve recommended 1pw to in the last decade or so over…)

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#672

Post by bigiain »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #600
koboll wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty typical for people here to be zoomed-in on the b2c side of a business because that's what they use, and fail to see the b2b side, the underwater mass of the iceberg.

I was going to say something about “just use pgp and rsync”

Browser and mobile app auto fill are really key features for a password manager.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#673

Post by BoorishBears »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #656
BoorishBears wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because I'm going to be using it for that long. Cool, I'm planning to use it for a lifetime. The point is that you didn't just use the monthly number because it's extremely low as far as paid software subscriptions go... - And I don't do this: > Decisions like this shouldn't be taken in complete isolation and rounded to zero. So I don't end up worrying about: > For this single app. It's easy to justify $3 at a time…

> So clearly you want the service but feel it's too expensive... No, I don't. "Money for service" is fine as a principle. This particular service is something I don't want at all. Those can both be true at the same time. > But secondly, software doesn't exist in a time bubble! Security updates, maintenance and support all exist and these are people trying to make a living while handling all that. I'm happy to pay for…

> No, I don't. "Money for service" is fine as a principle

My mistake for assuming you were talking about the thing being talked about

> What's your definition of reasonable here? $20 a month is a great deal if that's the price of security! So $20 a month would be reasonable by that metric. But I think we can both agree that's too high. So how do we decide? And it can't just be that low dollar amounts are automatically reasonable, because we're not rounding to zero.

This entire paragraph is just asking me how to price software, which is already a very well covered topic and there's no answer that will fit in this comment (there's also no one person who knows a definitive answer to it).

I mean part of why $3 is reasonable compared to $20 is less sticker shock... why is there less sticker shock for $3 but there is for $20? Why $9.99 instead of $10?

> I'm happy to pay for software updates. But software is supposed to last more than 10-16 months. Which is how often you'd be paying a reasonable shelf price of 30-50 dollars. Generally software can be expected to last ten years without trouble.

This still boils down to "what I want" while ignoring the reality the creators face.

Like, software companies have gone with your reality, and before 10 years passes up and you feel like it's time to upgrade... they're gone!

What you don't seem to understand is that the sustainability of the company has a premium here.

It's not just $3 for passwords, it's $3 so I have confidence I'm not relying on 1password having indefinite growth to have people work there.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#674

Post by jasonfarnon »

BoorishBears wrote: post #658
Dylan16807 wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. It does. But if we're talking about just the software, I don't think updates to an already-finished password manager are worth nearly that much. Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years.

> already-finished password manager No such thing. If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. > Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years. Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in…

> If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living.

Well that's the big question with these services isn't it? Are they keeping their doors open because they have more value to provide? Or is this just a ruse to keep their doors open without any further value to provide?

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#676

Post by kjreact »

BoorishBears wrote: post #655
kjreact wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. Now many of us are software developers here on HN, so I understand the need to charge money for software. But I paid full price for 1Password6 years ago and I haven’t needed any updates to continue using it. Now the company refuses to sell a non-subscription service version…

> Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. This sounds so much pithier than it actually is, but of course every reply will say it. Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month? Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. Some sof…

> Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month?

By your logic there’s nothing wrong with any other app asking for their own monthly toll when you feel that 1Password is justified in doing so.

> Like if every paid subscription you had was 3 dollars how would your bills look?

But 1Password never needed to be a subscription in the first place. I am still able to use 1Password6 to this day without any updates for the past 3 years. That’s $108 for software that I paid $30 originally.

> People are allergic to upfront payment. People just might not have the funds to pay a fair price all at once.

If they were truly worried about losing customers unwilling to pay upfront they’d offer both options. By forcing everyone to go subscription they see that they could have milked me for an additional $78+ without doing any work at all.

> I bet you one-time payment users ended up being some of their most expensive users since they had to manage disparate sync schemes. Now at least subscription users can subsides that cost a bit…

I don’t see why I should feel inclined to pay more to support some edge case users. I didn’t bemoan 1Password when they didn’t provide an update after Safari changed their API. I continued using the software in Firefox and Chrome.

Am I considered an “expensive user” simply because I’m unwilling to pay their toll? I haven’t gotten any support from them for the past 3 years.

We live in a capitalistic world and 1Password is free to go with whatever pricing model works for them to maximize their revenues. Likewise, I am free to warn people the poor value that they’re receiving with the current subscription model. I don’t have to aspire to be a reoccurring revenue stream to boost their $6.8B valuation…

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#677

Post by BoorishBears »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #674
BoorishBears wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> already-finished password manager No such thing. If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. > Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years. Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in…

> If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. Well that's the big question with these services isn't it? Are they keeping their doors open because they have more value to provide? Or is this just a ruse to keep their doors open without any further value to provide?

If that's been the question this whole time, the answer is no, this is not just a ruse.

https://app-updates.agilebits.com/product_history/OPM7

They provide a reliable service that's never let me down when I needed it, have security updates and bug fixes, provide great support, track OS and hardware updates... not much more they need to do to justify existing.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#678

Post by BoorishBears »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #662
BoorishBears wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> already-finished password manager No such thing. If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. > Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years. Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in…

> If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. Feature-complete, then. It needs updates but it doesn't need significant development work. > Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in the start menu and privacy abuse. They make most of the…

Again, software development companies have tried the "rely on people being willing to pay upfront for updates" and failed repeatedly

Once you get there it doesn't matter if your goal was features or updates, you're talking about closing doors and laying people off.

So I'd much rather 1password do exactly what they did and pivot off a failing model.

> They made home windows into a loss-leader.

That's great, and I'm sure when 1Password has a 100B war chest to sit on they'll think about doing the same.

Most people would consider turning your flagship into a loss-leader for other parts of the company not exactly the goal of the average software shop.

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#679

Post by mdaniel »

kchameleon1234 wrote: post #644
mdaniel wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would bet their Privacy.com integration is also v8/cloud only: https://blog.1password.com/privacy-virtual-cards/

It's not v8 at least, I use it on 7 just fine (though I do use the cloud offering). I don't see why it would be tied to that though considering it's just an API integration that saves the card into your 1password for the site you're on and then fills in the credentials. That _should_ theoretically work with a local vault as well on v7.

That same logic holds for the fastmail vanity email aliases, too, in that it's just an API integration; does your v7+cloud have that integration, too?

Re: 1Password Has Raised $620M

#680

Post by mdaniel »

grandpoobah wrote: post #633
mdaniel wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the old version installed anymore in order to check, but I thought that 1P only required that you authenticate to Dropbox (since the app just uses the Dropbox API for polling and to pull down changes), not that you turn on syncing. I mean, it's possible Dropbox is so sick they count a signin as a new device, but that would be a grave disappointment

Legacy user here - It does not use the API, it just stores the vault in your Dropbox folder.

Interesting, because in the root of my Dropbox is ".ws.agile.1Password.settings" which is a plain text file containing the "Dropbox App" path of "Apps/1Password/1Password.opvault" and my understanding of that "Apps" folder in Dropbox is that integrations can write whatever they like to it, but not write outside of it

I have a similar Apps folder for "O'Reilly" from back when I connected their app to Dropbox, and one for Joplin. It's too bad I don't have 1P 7 on my machine anymore, because I no longer have Dropbox on my machine so it would be a good test to see if it still syncs without the Dropbox client present

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