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Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

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Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#41

Whenever I feel down, I remember one powerful book I've read: "White on Black" [1]. It is in Russian and was written by a person born with a cerebral palsy, who had survived in soviet orphanage. The very vivid depiction of a life of a person with severe disability just forces you to better appreciate things you are taking for granted: like a capability to walk on your own and have working hands. This is what matters,…

In a similar vein, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. It's about an Austrian psychologist who experiences the holocaust firsthand. It's partly a description of the events that unfold, but also his thesis on his work called "logotherapy". A book about a person surviving the holocaust might strike you as really grim, but he brings a lot of humanity to the situation and it really makes you appreciate the life you have.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#42
> Should I tell my boss and/or team?

No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't.

> Should I take time off? How much?

Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind.

> Is there something in my working environment I should try to change?

Probably reduce the volume of work you are doing or do something that you care about more.

> Is there anything specific to working in tech and burning out that I should know about?

Yes, it's a constant treadmill of work, and if you aren't ready to never finish a project (all projects I've seen are in constant flux with constant changes) then get out now and find a career where you actually produce a finished product then move on to the next (like furniture building). The idea that software is a thing that is "complete" was a leftover from the 90's and the constant treadmill makes some people (myself included) go nuts.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#43
1. You should almost certainly talk to your boss, unless your boss is emotionally incompetent or disinterested in your well-being. Remember that you don't have to finish the conversation in the same session you start it.

2. Almost certainly! But remember that work/life balance doesn't just mean leaving work, it means having something you want to do that isn't work.

2a. I know what you mean about boredom, but my brother pointed something out to me at a resort in Cancun, which I was finding absolutely boring: The place is supposed to be that, because it forces you to relax.

3. Yes. I don't have any advice about specifically what, but I would strongly recommend that you just start changing things. This'll both break feelings of stagnation/stasis, and if you're lucky, actually be an improvement. But the important part isn't that you find the right change, it's that things start changing.

4. What we do is fundamentally creative, and fundamentally knowledge-work. Most of us started doing it because we like it, so it's easier for us to over-do it; and over-doing is, AFAIK, more susceptible to burn-out because you're forcing your mind into uncomfortable arrangements. I guess you could think of burnout as RSI for your creativity.

Think about how you get physically strong:

1. Pick up heavy things

2. Put them down

3. Take a nap.

This is true for mental (and emotional!) strength as well.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#44
post #11

The bad news is it’s going to take a long time to heal. The good news is you can come back happier than you can imagine. In an ideal scenario you would quit working entirely to focus on your health, but I’m guessing this is not an option. You need to focus on the body first. The most important is sleep, but that is also difficult to address directly, so it’s best to focus on diet and exercise. You’ll likely have to d…

This is a very good list. I'll add my to 2 cents to this. 1. Don't do any addiction. Alcohol, Psychedelics nothing. That's another spiral you won't be able to climb out from. 2. Taking some time off is the easiest way to figure out your l life. You will soon be able to realise your priorities in life. I'd say 2 months is good enough a time. But the most important thing is to not attempt doing any work stuff during th…

Psychedelics are generally not addictive [0], and if used correctly can help very much with burn out. [1][2]

> They are generally considered physiologically safe and do not lead to dependence or addiction. [0]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4813425/

[1] https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/how-to-cure-burnout

[2] https://www.friedtheburnoutpodcast.com/post/dr-randi-raymond

Edit: add references [1] and [2]

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#45
post #36

Can you get a medical leave? I was/am in your shoes, and I managed to get a leave from a doctor (general doctor, then psychiatrist). After almost 2 months off I feel so much better. Of course this is likely to tip off your boss (I just didn't care any more, so wasn't an issue for me). After 4-6 weeks of just walks in nature and sleep fixing (medication included) I am now being highly encouraged by my therapist to get…

What medication is helping you sleep if I may ask?

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#46
I went through a similar situation about a year ago. Was burned out at work and my workplace had gotten increasingly toxic in our post-IPO world. I went on medical leave and short-term disability for 3-4 months, and used that time to work on feeling normal again, and on looking for a different job.

If I were you, I would...

1) continue meeting with a doctor regularly to discuss treatment options. That could be short-term benzo use, antidepressants, lifestyle changes, as well as going on medical leave. Regular visits also help build up your rapport with your doctor and create a record that you've been seeking help for these issues. Those can be really helpful in the future. For reference, I was seeing my doctor weekly when going through my situation.

2) don't tell anybody at your work that you're experience burnout until you absolutely have to. And even then, limit it to those that need to know (which, likely, is HR and not your manager or coworkers). I've seen a lot of friends be passed over for promotions or interesting projects or even let go after disclosing mental health issues, even for things as prevalent as burnout. Figure out a plan with your doctor first, and then follow your doctor's suggestions on who to contact at work.

3) seriously consider time off, either through a week of PTO or through a more extended medical leave. Yes, it's a pandemic, and yes, you may not have any idea what you do. But, honestly, that's exactly why you need time off. You'll get bored and figure out what you like to do, and that'll open some probably-currently-blocked mental doors on things that might improve your life. For me, I went on a road trip through the southern US and visited national parks I had never been to before. All outdoors, nobody around, never went to restaurants, and brought an air purifier for my hotel room or airbnb. I've also started booking week-long stays at neat AirBnBs with no plans whatsoever... just read, hike around, journal. And even though it feels boring, it's incredibly reinvigorating. But when we're burned out, we forget the things that we love because we're so burdened by our jobs.

4) seriously consider a new job. Another cause of burnout is breakdown in the feedback loop of our work. So we put tons of effort into something, only to shift priorities and not finish a project... or only to have the project handed off to some other team for nebulous reasons... or only to have execs abruptly nix the project... etc. If that resonates, then maybe part of the issue is you're not getting what you need from your job, and it's time to look for something else.

5) double down on self-care. You probably have heard all of the things before: have a consistent sleep schedule, remove screens from your bedroom, go outside, exercise every day, cut down on sugar/alcohol/caffeine, have regular social contact (safely, but FaceTime, etc), reduce your social media usage, meditate, journal, etc. Cultivate hobbies -- what about learning a new language, or learning the guitar, or starting a garden, or learning 5 new gourmet meals to cook.

These issues are really common in tech, and right now life is particularly hard. There's a lot of instability in the world, there's not a lot of things to do with free time, and so we work too hard with nothing to look forward to. It all sucks. But it's great that you've recognized you're not in a great place, as that's the most important first step :)

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#47
I've been dealing with this some myself. It really sucks. I felt so guilty because in the grand scheme of things, I'm doing great, but at work, I couldn't bring myself to do the most trivial things I'd done countless times. Thankfully, I came across this article which has been helpful in setting me on the right track. https://apple.news/AIRTKZkBFQBmDhsIAImifTw

TL;DR - Occupational Burnout is a result of the body's inability to respond to cortisol (stress hormone) in the work environment. Sleep, vacationing & working out are a prerequisite, but insufficient to correct. The article instead recommends that people should address major contributing factors that show up most commonly:

1. workload

2. autonomy

3. fairness

4. reward: comp + recognition

5. workplace community

6. purpose: values + meaning

^ In my case, I took a hard look at each one and have been making sure I focus on addressing those that seem to be most demotivating to me. Creating a physical work environment and reading about the behavioral science of habbit forming has also been great support.

Best of luck in getting through it. You're not alone!

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#48
Yes tell your boss and work something out.

Your bosses reaction should be acknowledgement that your personal health takes priority over everything else because this is an obvious fact. Anything less is not acceptable. (Source: I am a boss).

The options you will receive depend on the company. Time off or part time is a good idea.

You don't need a plan to do 'something that's not work'. Don't worry about that part. Take the time off first and figure out the rest later. It might be a good time to visit friends/family as part of a holiday. Things are starting to open back up.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#49
I found out that I was too focused on material things but health is way more important.

If you don't have good health, everything else is useless - a big house is no benefit when you lie down in bed all day.

So your health should be above everything else - try to build a healthy lifestyle, then you can do the next steps.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#50
post #8

First, I'd highly recommend you get a Swedish massage. I know it sounds frivolous, but the massage will work like a magic pill on you right now. There's been some research on it – but basically persistent stress makes your body tense, and then even if your mental stress is gone, your body's tenseness keeps you on fight or flight mode. You shouldn't make any decisions in this mode. A 60 minute massage will untangle th…

If you can find bath houses (in SF there's a... Russian? bathhouse, in LA there's lots of Korean bath houses - Wi Spa is probably the most popular), you can combine both a spa day (hello hot/cold plunges!) with massages. Highly recommend the combination.
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