Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends • Hacker News Board

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#141

Post by throwaway1777 » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #124

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #22

These headlines are some of the weirdest backwards stories I’ve seen lately. It’s like everyone is desperate to make this into a crisis yet reality isn’t delivering the eviction catastrophe the headline writers wanted. Obviously we’re seeing more evictions now that they’re literally not banned. That’s not news. However, this is shocking: > The rates of evictions served are approaching pre-pandemic levels in certain a…

I also see that in these "everyone is leaving California" stories. It's not that I really care whether people are coming or going, but there is a part of the media that seems to bring the hate. The main change of the last two years has been less immigration, not more people leaving (there are always lots of people leaving), but you never hear that. Sometimes it feels like they are trying to tell the story people want…

Correct take. California has almost always been driven by immigration going all the way back to the gold rush.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#142

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

hedgehog wrote: post #138

endisneigh wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's obviously work in maintaining an inherently depreciating, heavily worn asset. This is true of both landlords and anyone who loans out physical goods as a service.

Maintenance work is a job, owning real estate is an investment. Sometimes done by the same people, sometimes not.

Yes, I agree that owning real estate is an investment - renting it out is a job.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#143

Post by nomel » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:57 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #46

cletus wrote: post #19

I'm all for providing a social safety net in exactly the way the US doesn't. Housing (aka shelter) is a key part of that but the way the US does this is completely backwards. The government saying you can't evict someone is basically telling people they don't have to pay rent anymore regardless of need . Rent control is the same way: you can't raise the rent regardless of need . So these programs don't really help pe…

This is a good comment. What I would add is that the system feels hopeless for a lot of people right now. The things that used to be possible for people not wanting to rent aren't an option any more. I know someone who literally lived in a hole in the ground as he slowly built his home around it. Every now and then a couple of his friends from church would come by and help him with this or that and it slowly came tog…

> I'm not talking about things like circuit breakers or child-safing banisters and railings

For example, in California, all new homes must have solar power, with the requirement that [1]:

> The solar panel system needs to be large enough to meet the annual electricity usage of the building

> builders can decrease the size requirement of a system on a property by incorporating battery storage ... ... by incorporating energy efficiency measures or other demand-responsive measures

1. https://news.energysage.com/an-overview-of-the-california-so...

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#144

Post by eganist » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:57 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #102

eganist wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Landlords don't evict people because they want their properties to be empty. Evicting a tenant and taking in a different one has no effect on the number of people with housing. I'm not sure where I made the impression that landlords want empty properties. They're evicting so that they can bring in paying tenants, but those tenants are often housed elsewhere anyway, not coming out of unhoused or underhoused groups.…

People getting evicted from a two bedroom apartment aren't going to a homeless shelter, they're going to a studio apartment that costs half as much. People getting evicted from a studio apartment aren't getting replaced by Jeff Bezos, they're getting replaced by someone else who can only afford a studio apartment and might have otherwise been homeless. Increasing the number of units on the market will tend to reduce…

> People getting evicted from a two bedroom apartment aren't going to a homeless shelter, they're going to a studio apartment that costs half as much.

Why are we certain that a family getting evicted from a 2 bedroom apartment can afford a studio? They're getting evicted, presumably for nonpayment e.g arising from joblessness, which would suggest they're likewise also unable to pay for a studio.

> People getting evicted from a studio apartment aren't getting replaced by Jeff Bezos, they're getting replaced by someone else who can only afford a studio apartment and might have otherwise been homeless.

And where are the people getting evicted from a studio going?

> Increasing the number of units on the market will tend to reduce rents and allow more people to afford housing.

City/NIMBY bottlenecks are preventing this from happening, and though I agree with the premise, joblessness won't help when it comes to people looking for housing that needs payment.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#145

Post by georgeecollins » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:57 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #19

I'm all for providing a social safety net in exactly the way the US doesn't. Housing (aka shelter) is a key part of that but the way the US does this is completely backwards. The government saying you can't evict someone is basically telling people they don't have to pay rent anymore regardless of need . Rent control is the same way: you can't raise the rent regardless of need . So these programs don't really help pe…

>> The government saying you can't evict someone is basically telling people they don't have to pay rent anymore

If this were true, then you would expect an explosion of evictions now that you can do it. I think that avoiding eviction is an important reason to pay rent but there are other, particularly not going into debt, not wrecking your credit score, and keeping your rental in the long term.

I don't disagree that this was dumb as a blanket policy but this was also an emergency no one expected and no one knew how serious it would be in terms of health and impact on the economy.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#146

Post by throwaway1777 » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

tehwebguy wrote: post #125

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #22

These headlines are some of the weirdest backwards stories I’ve seen lately. It’s like everyone is desperate to make this into a crisis yet reality isn’t delivering the eviction catastrophe the headline writers wanted. Obviously we’re seeing more evictions now that they’re literally not banned. That’s not news. However, this is shocking: > The rates of evictions served are approaching pre-pandemic levels in certain a…

> What am I missing? - Not all evictions were covered by the federal ban, or any applicable local bans - Most people likely did not actually go through the eviction process (most people want / try to pay their bills; most would avoid a life where a landlord is constantly hounding them for unpaid rent; its greatly preferable for a tenant to avoid the mark by almost any means; can be expensive for landlords; some landl…

As a small scale landlord I haven’t had a single tenant abuse the moratorium. I believe another factor is rents have been on the rise, so if you do get evicted good luck finding a similar place.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#147

Post by cletus » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

indigochill wrote: post #92

cletus wrote: post #19

I'm all for providing a social safety net in exactly the way the US doesn't. Housing (aka shelter) is a key part of that but the way the US does this is completely backwards. The government saying you can't evict someone is basically telling people they don't have to pay rent anymore regardless of need . Rent control is the same way: you can't raise the rent regardless of need . So these programs don't really help pe…

> what they should do is assess this on a case-by-case basis and pay the rent for people in genuine need. I theorize this is infeasible in the US at the national level because there are probably regions in the US with insufficient manpower to do this manual review (though someone might correct me on this). It's easier to throw money at the problem by giving money to those who don't need it than it is to hire and main…

I don't believe it's infeasible because we already do it to a large degree.

At the Federal level there is a Section 8 housing.

At the state level there are various rent assistance programs.

Most people are also W2 employees so their income is tied to their SSN so a lot of this can be automated by simply looking at your actual monthly income.

The fact that you'd need to apply for this would also discourage some people from abusing the system.

Lastly, I don't really care if the system isn't perfect and some people get assistance they don't need. It doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be "good enough". At an ethical level, I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt and not make them homeless than worry about them abusing welfare some of the time.

> People have long abused welfare in the US who don't actually need it

I'm always skeptical of claims like this because they're used as a political tool to attack poor people for being poor. OMB's estimate [1] put this at "5.6 to 7.2%". In a country that spends a trillion dollars a year on the military, that's a literal rounding error that I don't care about at all.

[1]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/briefing-room/2021/12/30/upda....

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#148

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #136

thegrimmest wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehm, I'm not sure how that makes any sense at all. Someone who can't be trusted to repay 100k can certainly be trusted to inhabit a (insured) house worth 700k without setting it on fire. Landlords do exactly this all the time. Also, it's not about keeping the money safe, but about generating a return.

Well if we're talking about loaning 100k for the house, you can always execute your lien holder privileges to take back the house if they don't pay. Mortgage insurance providers a like service to the mortgage provider to minimize losses. I'd much rather be in position backing mortgage on 100k house, backed by mortgage insurance, than risking someone I don't trust with that same 100k having full custody of my house wo…

> Mortgage insurance providers a like service to the mortgage provider to minimize losses

If real estate becomes a non-cash producing “asset,” mortgage insurance would become far pricier.

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#149

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #19

I'm all for providing a social safety net in exactly the way the US doesn't. Housing (aka shelter) is a key part of that but the way the US does this is completely backwards. The government saying you can't evict someone is basically telling people they don't have to pay rent anymore regardless of need . Rent control is the same way: you can't raise the rent regardless of need . So these programs don't really help pe…

[deleted]

Re: Eviction notice downloads soar after federal moratorium ends

#150

Post by maxmamis » Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #116

maxmamis wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do you think it is one?

There's obviously work in maintaining an inherently depreciating, heavily worn asset. This is true of both landlords and anyone who loans out physical goods as a service.

that work is done by maintenance workers — unless the landlord is personally out performing all the repairs, in which case they deserve to be compensated for their labor like anyone else. as mentioned below, the maintenance workers mysteriously aren't the ones entitled to a third of my paycheck...

secondly, ask anyone who's ever rented — landlords are notoriously awful at keeping up with maintenance. so if we're considering it a job, then they get paid far more for doing far worse work than any other occupation i can think of. does that not make you angry?