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An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

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Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#41

Post by noitsnot »

noja wrote: post #10
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #8

They do it down too. It’s not a secret or illegal. Here’s a post mortem from the guy that did it. https://twitter.com/AlamedaTrabucco/status/14672197118301511... Ready for a move up again soon.

> It’s not [...] illegal Errr - what? I think you'll find that market manipulation is prohibited in the US under Section 9(a)(2) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and in the EU under article 12 of the Market Abuse Regulation (etc.) The US Securities Exchange Act defines market manipulation as "transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security". See https://en.…

This guy apparently runs a company that has millions and takes advantage of inefficiencies. He's not creating the fake articles but he's using what it creates to his advantage. From what I understand, he will run the price down if there is low liquidity and trigger your stop losses and somehow make money doing it.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#42

Post by ianai »

SilasX wrote: post #33
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a security, my friend. Crypto is the land of no rules and caveat emptor.

But Bitcoin options on e.g. LedgerX.com are securities (edit: regulated ones, that is), and anything that affects Bitcoin’s price is going to affect those derivatives’ prices.

Seems trading firms largely facilitate trading it btc and other cryptos. If they’re not legally regulated as securities then it may be time for that regulation. Or simply being disallowed for such trading firms.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#43

Post by jcranmer »

mcbishop wrote: post #11
Hokusai wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Elon Musk a relevant opinion on this matter? Even worse, he is well known for astroturfing his own assets.

Elon Musk in the exchange above: > I think I have a pretty deep understanding of what money actually is on a practical day-to-day basis, because of PayPal. His comments in the exchange seem insightful to me. I assume you didn't bother reading them.

I read them. "Insightful" is not the word I would use.

For example, one of the points is that the current financial system is problematic because it runs on COBOL. There's no actual criticism as to why running on COBOL is bad, other than the indirect insinuation that COBOL is old, not modern, and therefore it sucks. Basically, it's futurism for the sake of futurism--new is inherently better than old, and anything that is old is attacked as being bad without analyzing the relative benefits of new and old (see also Musk's comments about Hyperloop and Loop, which are severely lacking in the 'mass' department compared to the 'mass transit' options they are notionally competing against).

It is possible to be insightful about issues with the current financial system. You could point to issues like the reliance on unsecured FTP of text files to actually do settlement in SWIFT. Or you might point to issues like the fact that ATH doesn't have protections against unscrupulous users stealing all your money. That kind of information would be insightful, but instead, we get mere castigation at the age of COBOL, which is completely orthogonal to any actual issues with the financial systems.

Outside of this dismissal because of COBOL, the only other main point that Musk makes is, well, the standard libertarian viewpoint on economy that inflation is a hidden government tax. But even here, it's not fully developed--perhaps because the "benefit" of dogecoin over bitcoin is that the former has more inflation than the latter, and if you think about it too hard, you might be poking holes in his argument.

In any case, "insightful" is not an adequate adjective to describe Musk's comments here.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#44

Post by superkuh »

No, this is the anatomy of an off-chain price manipulation of a private futures market that exchanges something that is tradeable for Bitcoin. It used to be funny but now it's just sad seeing everyone confused about the difference between bitcoin and third party markets. Only a vanishingly tiny fraction of this actually has any representation on the bitcoin blockchain. It's like buying stolen Tide detergent out of the back of a shady car in the parking lot of the actual grocery store then complaining about the grocer when you get home and it's watered down.

This is the normal finance people with their normal scams manipulating private enties like Binance which are vagely associated with Bitcoin. The finance people and the public at large cannot see bitcoin as anything other than an investment and that perception blinds them.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#45

Post by belter »

skilled wrote: post #31

Interesting tidbit: "An aside on NFTs Because they’re “unique” objects, NFTs are a perfect vehicle for wash trading. You can easily ensure you only wash trade to yourself. The common scheme is to wash trade with yourself until some credible dunce buys the NFT from you at your manufactured “fair” value, leaving you to walk away with real money." It's such a stupidly simple idea it's actually brilliant.

In a complex system, whose algorithmic essence is price forgery, value randomness and pump and dump as a strategy...Would argue that achieving maximum manipulation is simply the algorithm optimizing for its "best".

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#46

Post by gunshai »

danaris wrote: post #30
mcbishop wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk in the exchange above: > I think I have a pretty deep understanding of what money actually is on a practical day-to-day basis, because of PayPal. His comments in the exchange seem insightful to me. I assume you didn't bother reading them.

...because Musk bought PayPal, he can speak authoritatively on Bitcoin?

This is a bit of misunderstanding of history. He started X.com which would later become PayPal.

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#47

Post by dadoge »

paulpauper wrote: post #26

The price is nothing but down, down, down. it is not manipulation but just ppl dumping at every opportunity, like bank stocks in 2007-2008 or dotcom stocks in 2000-2002. Would not want to own this.

Down down down huh?

https://www.lookintobitcoin.com/charts/bitcoin-logarithmic-g...

Re: An anatomy of Bitcoin price manipulation

#50

Post by temp8964 »

mbesto wrote: post #9

Curious - does anyone not think Bitcoin or any other cypto coin is being manipulated?

What coin is not being manipulated? Even USD is being manipulated by the fed. All the countries manipulate their coins.

So the real question is whether a coin is being manipulated, but what kind of manipulation you can accept.

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