Do success stories cause false beliefs about success? • Hacker News Board

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#221

Post by amelius » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:04 PM UTC

ChildOfChaos wrote: post #72

going_ham wrote: post #28

Nobody writes it, but it's okay to have average job, with average life and average family as long as you can enjoy your life! Why burden yourself with idea of success and setting expectations. At this point I am sure life doesn't give anything unless you look for it. And even if you seek, there is no guarantee. So I think it's waste of energy. My experience so far. I am really glad that I learned how stability is nec…

It's exactly this, i've been thinking about this a lot lately. I mean who is 'anybody' anyway. People talk about legacy, but I think it's just ego. They don't want to accept they will be one day gone and nobody cares, so they want to build something they think will extend there life beyond that. But does it really matter anyway? Even the most successful of the successful, does it really matter? What about the person…

Yes, it's all relative. But what if your sisters and brothers all have successful companies, and you have just an average paying job?

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#222

Post by nickpp » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:05 PM UTC

Klinky wrote: post #203

WalterBright wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of famine certainly is. Probably the greatest advance ever.

Haber process was developed while Fritz Haber was at University of Karlsruhe, a public research university. BASF was hesitant to invest in it, but luckily employee/engineer(not exactly an entrepreneur) Carl Bosch was there to convince them otherwise, and was able to industrialize the process. Haber process also has its negatives, such as an ammonia resource for war, and the growing use of factory/unsustainable farmin…

We've seen how non-profit-driven research works in Soviet countries: their spies were busy stealing tech from the west, while the country was falling further and further behind.

Maybe there are many reasons to do research and people will often learn just for the sake of learning. But to turn that research into an actual useful, available product on the shelf - you need a profit motivation. Otherwise nobody will do the unsexy work and then there will not be money and nice condition for pure research either.

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#223

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:10 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #207

ianbutler wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but they have bigger problems and hopefully are seeking professional help not thinking about advanced productivity techniques like this thread is about. For most people this is a perfectly fine point. This trend of "but wait this won't work for this particular group" in online conversation isn't useful. This obviously wasn't directed at heavily depressed people or people struggling it was directed at otherwise…

Apologies, I didn't mean to ruin your argument by citing groups and circumstances to which it doesn't apply. I mostly meant to question your definition of normally functioning people. IMO from a lifetime of observations the normal state of your average human is being passive, not learning, not improving, and not changing their life situation. Hence my comment. Sorry that it was worded a bit poorly. You probably meant…

[deleted]

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#224

Post by hirvi74 » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:16 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #91

bitwize wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some basic strategies: > 1. stay in school > 2. don't do drugs > 3. don't do crimes You forgot: 4. be born to rich parents That probably has a greater influence on chances of success than most others.

It probably does, but it's not something you can affect, so not really of note when discussing what you can do to increase you odds of succeeding in something, which is what he was doing. It's also worth noting that the advice applies to people born wealthy too. You aren't likely to become a guitar god without practice even if you have money. It just might be easier to find the time to actually practice.

> not really of note when discussing what you can do to increase you odds of succeeding in something

It's because it chips away at people's egos. It hurts people to realize how much of their success was pure luck. It's hard to look down on others that way. Same with intelligence -- no one chooses their intelligence, so I find it odd when people boast about their borderline-pseudo-science-better-than-you-score, I mean, IQ score.

What is the story about the emerald mining, abused Zambian worker who turned into billionaire who started their own space program again? Right, it wasn't that person, but the son of the family that owned the mines that started his own space program (Musk).

> It's also worth noting that the advice applies to people born wealthy too. You aren't likely to become a guitar god without practice even if you have money. It just might be easier to find the time to actually practice.

I completely agree. One has to use what is given to them, but it's a lot easier to use an ability when one has an opportunity.

I can't remember who, but a highly talented and famous musician , was once asked, "Who do you think the greatest player of all time is?" He said, "It was probably some kid in a 3rd-world factory who never got to hold an instrument in their life."

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#225

Post by inter_netuser » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:22 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #122

inter_netuser wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What part of that successful people do? 1. they are rarely stupid 2. they often sleep a lot less 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). 4. they produce unlimited amounts of self-generated morale (related to #3). 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) 6. they are healthier in general (related to all of the above) I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health condit…

> 1. they are rarely stupid I know at least 5 people who are fairly stupid but were at the right place, the right evening, the right dinner and spoke with the right people. They all retired at 35 with tens of millions after taxes. They can coast on these savings for 10 years if they live lavishly and if they close all their businesses tomorrow. They weren't stupid in 2-3 regards, yeah. For everything else that I chat…

Sleep needs was worded poorly.

I really just tried to describe a hyperthymiac in detail (they need less sleep). They have a lot of traits that help to compete. Some I’ve known worked for decades under enormous amounts stress that would probably kill most, but without any visible impact on the hyperthymiac in question. And it was all on 5 hours of sleep per days. For 20 years straight.

The larger point that everyone missed is none of these attributes are under your control. In this case, its just blessed genetics. Not sure if that’s what they tell you in books: “make sure to win at genetics” lol.

Luck factor is huge. Genetics. Early life events. Family environment. country you live in. Family connections. After that - your ability to execute on the hand the fate dealt to you.

But even that, the ability to execute, isn’t entirely under your control. Some will be untouchable simply because genetics.

This doesn’t meant one should never try, quite the opposite.

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#226

Post by tjs8rj » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:25 PM UTC

slim109ya wrote: post #105

WalterBright wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the simple act of trying will improve your odds of success. Some basic strategies: 1. stay in school 2. don't do drugs 3. don't do crimes If you want to be a pro basketball player, your odds will improve if you practice playing basketball. Want to be a guitar god? Get a guitar and start practicing. Every guitar god I've heard of have one thing in common - they played a lot , for many many years, before breaking…

Many guitar gods use drugs, Walt Disney and Bill Gates did not stay in school, and people like Mike Tyson and Kevin Mitnick were successful after comitting crimes. There's just too many variables in life that make success more about luck than following general guidelines.

I think the confusion here is in part because success is so nebulous a term.

Consider success in the stock market, that’d be getting significantly better returns than the vast majority of people. Success in general is the same thing. If you don’t “beat the market” ie the average by a significant margin, you don’t really standout from the crowd as a success. Like the stock market: there is not general recipe that when followed will make you successful. That doesn’t mean there aren’t general things you can do to improve your odds of success, a simple proof of this is considering the negative: if you killed yourself youd lower your chances of finding success, so not killing yourself helps. Same with not getting locked up in jail, not murdering people, etc

Another fact is: success is not entirely luck else rich people (if that’s what we’re calling success) wouldn’t have so much in common. That doesn’t mean rich people and poor people are two different species, but clearly there are traits and behaviors that tend to increase your success odds.

If it’s a recipe you’re looking for, not that I’m all that successful, I’d say: know what you want to achieve, and devote significant time, effort, and thought towards achieving it, taking advantage of every opportunity you can, learning as much as possible, deliberate seek out luck filled situations like meeting new people, and be adaptable. If you do that for long enough and you aren’t successful, then a revolution is called for.

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#227

Post by GameOfFrowns » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:27 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #156

inter_netuser wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What part of that successful people do? 1. they are rarely stupid 2. they often sleep a lot less 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). 4. they produce unlimited amounts of self-generated morale (related to #3). 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) 6. they are healthier in general (related to all of the above) I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health condit…

There are many very successful people with chronic mental health conditions that at times impair their cognition to the point of debility. Like, re-read your comment with Simone Biles in mind, who is arguably the most successful gymnast ever but did spend extensive time constantly sleeping while depressed and demotivated and broken down. Quoting her, "At one point I slept so much because, for me, it was the closest t…

No post body was provided.

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#228

Post by inter_netuser » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

ganbatekudasai wrote: post #212

inter_netuser wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What part of that successful people do? 1. they are rarely stupid 2. they often sleep a lot less 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). 4. they produce unlimited amounts of self-generated morale (related to #3). 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) 6. they are healthier in general (related to all of the above) I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health condit…

I sleep a lot. A lot . Sleeping more than 12 hours is no problem for me. Unsurprisingly, I'm also rather hypothymiac (it runs in the family). I consider myself very successful, and others do as well. More importantly, I also never felt that my large amount of sleep was working against me in that. Almost the opposite actually, as I can "sleep off" depression, minor sicknesses, general bad mood etc.

What’s very successful for you?

I’ve described the list because I’ve met several people like that.

All but one were self made billionaires in traditional business, none of that VC unicorn nonsense.

5 hours of sleep per day, nearly 100% performance during the entire 19 hours, in some cases - for 20 years straight, under enormous stress.

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#229

Post by GameOfFrowns » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:33 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #200

bennysomething wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it seems that most people do end up the average of their friends.

That's an astute observation. Choosing winners for friends, and cutting loose the losers, will increase your odds of success. For example, if you want to be good at skiing, hang out with people who are good at skiing.

This only works if your peers aren't following the same strategy of maximizing potential otherwise they would just cut you out for being the least successful friend.

Re: Do success stories cause false beliefs about success?

#230

Post by inter_netuser » Sun, Jan 16, 2022, 10:37 PM UTC

buran77 wrote: post #159

inter_netuser wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprise, you don't get to choose anything at all on that list.

You didn't mention what might be the most important things successful people have to get them there: a good support network of other successful people, and a good safety net to catch them if they fail (sometimes the same network). I think you can scratch away everything on that list and the network (family, friends, colleagues, etc.) could still help you be successful. It's like a game where some people get a copy wi…

I don’t disagree.

But one could build a network etc etc.

Winning genetic lottery is a lot less debatable, and really was just a red herring to point out the role her majesty the Fortune plays in our lives from even before we are born.

We don’t get to choose the hand we must play.