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Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

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Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#131

Post by barnabee »

Karunamon wrote: post #76
SahAssar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most email I get from services is unsolicited. While I did sign up for the services I did not solicit every newsletter, marketing email, "notification" and so on. For 98% percent of services I use I mainly want my email for one thing: a way to reset my password. Often I need to unsubscribe from each of them individually and then navigate some sort of "notification preferences" interface. Even after that has been done…

Yes you did . When you open a relationship with a company (by signing up to use their services), they are allowed to market to you, send you newsletters, and so forth, until such time as you terminate that relationship. It isn't spam because you don't want it. If you actually don't want it, then click 'unsubscribe' - and if they continue to bother you afterwards (which, FWIW, I've seen a reputable company do a grand…

Nope. In the UK and EU (and probably other places!) you can’t send someone email marketing unless they explicitly opt in (i.e. no pre-ticked boxes either) [1].

Also, it is presicely spam because I don’t want it, whether you have a right or even obligation to send it or not.

[1] https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#133

Post by pbowyer »

karussell wrote: post #82
uallo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that a meaningful number of users creates new accounts every 7 days just to avoid paying. Setting up a new account is usually enough work that it is not worth it. But if that is the case for your service, here are three things from the top of my head that might even work. If instead you just block disposable email addresses, I might as well look somewhere else. * Reduce the trial period for users with a dispo…

Thanks, the first idea is a really good one for our use case. (the other ideas won't work unfortunately) And yes, it is not a meaningful number of people that do so, but over time this is very ugly and frustrating (as it requires manual intervention) and you block the disposable Email provider they used ...

Your free trial is too generous.

Suggest using the Standard plan but with significant rate limiting. Like 5/day.

If they want to remove that, enter credit card details which you verify.

You can still have the trial expire and the credit card isn't ever charged; but you can track people on trials more easily.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#134

Post by Nextgrid »

brightball wrote: post #116
ravenstine wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Sign up for a trial of something and suddenly you're getting 3 emails a day. --- "Ravenstine, kick your goals into overdrive now" "Check this feature out!" "We're the best, but don't take our word for it" "Your account is waiting for you" "This will be like money in your pocket" "Don't miss out on our webinar" "The gift that keeps on giving" "It's been a while..." "So this is goodbye, Ravenstine?" --- F--- YOU!…

Ah, automatic drip emails. I don't know anybody who likes these things but a lot of marketing people insist that they are a necessity.

Well they sure are a necessity for their career. It's like expecting a snake-oil salesman to admit that they're scamming you.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#135

Post by johannes1234321 »

karussell wrote: post #80
chrisseaton wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just sign up with disposable Emails for the 7 day trial over and over again? That's a lot of effort to go through to avoid paying for something. And I guess you can't keep your data or configuration, if the app has any.

That happens quite frequently to our SaaS where people need free access to a new API key. We try to block multiple registrations but there are people who also invest into proxies to circumvent this protection...

people who want to bypass those restrictions can easily do it. It is trivial to get a bunch of mail addresses to use, even without "disposable mail" providers. People who try to abuse the trial period over and over will do. Blocking the disposable mail providers however also blocks users who are curious, but not yet committed.

I argue that maths is negative for your business and a better approachbis to make it easy tonget started, but show them clear benefit of switching plans. Maybe a cheap entry level plan with a small set of convenience features, not available to the test account.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#136

Post by barnabee »

karussell wrote: post #56
uallo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently, I wanted to try a web service but they did not let me register with a disposable email address. Well, I guess I will not try the service then.

And how would you protect your service from users that just sign up with disposable Emails for the 7 day trial over and over again?

Make the service less useful in the free trial period — for instance a really low cap on API requests per hour/day or limit the user to cresting a very small number of records/items when they aren’t paying.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#137

Post by dragonwriter »

createmyaccount wrote: post #22
AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #10

The reason disposable email addresses exist and are popular is because services have abused users' trust to not use these emails for shady ad revenue and marketing schemes. It's further compounded by shoddy security that leads to leaks and exposure of people's personal email addresses to pwned compromised lists. People don't want to give up their personal email addresses so that they can be spammed or hacked. Until s…

I’m the founder of a small bootstrapped SAAS and people use disposable email addresses all the time to avoid paying for our product. We don’t sell any data.

> I’m the founder of a small bootstrapped SAAS and people use disposable email addresses all the time to avoid paying for our product.

So, make it worthwhile to pay for the product.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#138

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

Karunamon wrote: post #109
pooper wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the subject line of an email in my inbox right now. Sure you could say the sender allows me to opt out but I shouldn't have to opt out. This isn't legally spam but I want to know what you would call this unsolicited, non-transactional commercial email. » Your Prime Membership: {{first name}} {{last name}}, discover the latest in deals and entertainment included with Prime

> I want to know what you would call this unsolicited, non-transactional commercial email. Commercial email, differentiated from spam in that you have a commercial relationship with Amazon that you initiated and agreed to (i.e. solicited), and as such, they are allowed to market to you until such time as you ask them to stop. I can see my opinion on this matter isn't a common one on HN.

> you have a commercial relationship with Amazon that you initiated and agreed to (i.e. solicited), and as such, they are allowed to market to you

That's not what that word means. I didn't solicit marketing emails; the only emails I asked for were the bare minimum to open an account and anything needed for orders that I initiated.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#139

Post by cpeterso »

contravariant wrote: post #96
dmurray wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Password managers should start supporting this flow. Allow the password manager to read your Gmail, or for cloud-based managers log up with an @1password.com email... Not trivial technically, and maybe turning password managers into SSO providers, but that's a lucrative business in itself.

At that point we'd be better of figuring out a proper protocol that allows websites to talk to the password manager directly.

Mozilla designed a decentralized authentication protocol back in 2011 called BrowserID, which was later standardized by the IETF. IIUC, it was similar to OpenID but sites would authenticate your identity with your email service provider. Unfortunately, the protocol never gained traction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Persona

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#140

Post by jeroenhd »

This seems perfectly fine. A list of disposable email domains should contain disposable email domains like Firefox Relay, iOS "Sign in with Apple", Fastmail's random e-mail generator and others. Weird that Apple's domains aren't on the list, though. Hell, Gmail and Outlook should be on the list as well, because creating email addresses there is so quick and easy they might as well be considered throwaway services.

I'm not sure what the point of that list would be other than to drive users away from your service, but hey, if you want to be a dick, you're perfectly allowed to do so.

Edit: as written here: https://github.com/disposable-email-domains/disposable-email... the list is not intended for websites where one needs to sign up for an account first, like free mail services. I suppose that means neither Firefox Relay, nor any other such service should be on the list.

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