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Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

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Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#81

Post by [deleted] »

Karunamon wrote: post #49
teakettle42 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people use disposable email addresses all the time to avoid paying for our product. From the prospective subscriber’s perspective, that’s your problem to worry about — not theirs. > We don’t sell any data. How should users know that? It’s also not just a matter of selling data — almost all companies will spam your email address, even if you check the box asking them not to.

> almost all companies will spam your email address, even if you check the box asking them not to. I find this very hard to believe. "Spam" has a specific definition; the most important bit of which is that it is unsolicited. Mails landing in your inbox that you'd rather not get, but which are not unsolicited (say, by you signing up for an account and confirming your address), are not spam by definition . "Almost all…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#82

Post by karussell »

uallo wrote: post #74
karussell wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would you protect your service from users that just sign up with disposable Emails for the 7 day trial over and over again?

I doubt that a meaningful number of users creates new accounts every 7 days just to avoid paying. Setting up a new account is usually enough work that it is not worth it. But if that is the case for your service, here are three things from the top of my head that might even work. If instead you just block disposable email addresses, I might as well look somewhere else. * Reduce the trial period for users with a dispo…

Thanks, the first idea is a really good one for our use case. (the other ideas won't work unfortunately)

And yes, it is not a meaningful number of people that do so, but over time this is very ugly and frustrating (as it requires manual intervention) and you block the disposable Email provider they used ...

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#83

Post by karussell »

simongr3dal wrote: post #72
karussell wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would you protect your service from users that just sign up with disposable Emails for the 7 day trial over and over again?

Just a few idea: Make it useful to have a persistent identity, so you have something to lose if you abandon the account (like a library of games in steam, or a network of friends on facebook). Require a payment method and limit how many free trials can be activated with the same card. Require a phone number since they a harder to get than emails.

I really dislike services that require payment or telephone numbers for verification just to try out a service. And we are unsure if this increases friction for normal users.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#84

Post by Avamander »

johnklos wrote: post #29
Animats wrote: post #13

How about blacklisting Gmail? They're a major source of spam.

This is not outside of the realm of possible. Google does nothing to stop spammers, makes up their own non-public rules and doesn't communicate with the Internet community, so Gmail addresses are already on shaky grounds. For instance, for starters, go search through all of your email for any email sent from Google servers where the "Reply to:" doesn't match the "Mail from:", and tell me if there are any legitimate i…

> For instance, for starters, go search through all of your email for any email sent from Google servers where the "Reply to:" doesn't match the "Mail from:", and tell me if there are any legitimate instances. We could all benefit by starting to reject all Google sourced email with a different "Reply to:".

Yes. Very common. Sorry but you have a very limited view of realistic mail traffic.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#85

Post by [deleted] »

Spivak wrote: post #78
teakettle42 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a service provider's point of view [1], a big portion of "users" with disposable email domains have intention to do bad things, e.g., spamming From a service user’s point of view, a big portion of “services” that demand their real email address have intention to do bad things, e.g. spamming

Fine, you don't have to provide your real email and can use a forwarding service. I'm gonna need you to verify your non-voip phone number, submit a picture of your government issued ID and a photo of yourself in a specific random pose as a liveliness check, or register a valid credit card in order to activate your account. Services use emails from well-known providers specifically because they're "good enough" signal…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#86

Post by tentacleuno »

twapi wrote: post #30

DuckDuckGo's duck.com is still not added to this list. Phew!

I find it sad that you say 'phew' to this. Surely there's a more resilient way to do disposable email that wouldn't be knocked over by one pull request?

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#87

Post by teakettle42 »

Karunamon wrote: post #76
SahAssar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most email I get from services is unsolicited. While I did sign up for the services I did not solicit every newsletter, marketing email, "notification" and so on. For 98% percent of services I use I mainly want my email for one thing: a way to reset my password. Often I need to unsubscribe from each of them individually and then navigate some sort of "notification preferences" interface. Even after that has been done…

Yes you did . When you open a relationship with a company (by signing up to use their services), they are allowed to market to you, send you newsletters, and so forth, until such time as you terminate that relationship. It isn't spam because you don't want it. If you actually don't want it, then click 'unsubscribe' - and if they continue to bother you afterwards (which, FWIW, I've seen a reputable company do a grand…

> It isn't spam because you don't want it.

It isn’t not spam because you want to send it.

You’re departing substantially from both the historical and commonly understood, contemporary definition of spam.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#88

Post by wongarsu »

hiq wrote: post #62
createmyaccount wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m the founder of a small bootstrapped SAAS and people use disposable email addresses all the time to avoid paying for our product. We don’t sell any data.

Why don't you ask for a credit card instead of relying on email?

People don't like giving their credit cards for free trials, mostly because of services that have abused this by automatically charging for a paid subscription if you don't cancel your free trial.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#89

Post by Karunamon »

teakettle42 wrote: post #87
Karunamon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you did . When you open a relationship with a company (by signing up to use their services), they are allowed to market to you, send you newsletters, and so forth, until such time as you terminate that relationship. It isn't spam because you don't want it. If you actually don't want it, then click 'unsubscribe' - and if they continue to bother you afterwards (which, FWIW, I've seen a reputable company do a grand…

> It isn't spam because you don't want it. It isn’t not spam because you want to send it. You’re departing substantially from both the historical and commonly understood, contemporary definition of spam.

I see little historical precedent or common understanding for the HN definition of 'email I'd rather not have in my inbox' equating to 'spam'.

Re: Mozilla's Firefox Relay to be added to disposable-email-domains blacklist

#90

Post by maronato »

createmyaccount wrote: post #22
AequitasOmnibus wrote: post #10

The reason disposable email addresses exist and are popular is because services have abused users' trust to not use these emails for shady ad revenue and marketing schemes. It's further compounded by shoddy security that leads to leaks and exposure of people's personal email addresses to pwned compromised lists. People don't want to give up their personal email addresses so that they can be spammed or hacked. Until s…

I’m the founder of a small bootstrapped SAAS and people use disposable email addresses all the time to avoid paying for our product. We don’t sell any data.

Disposable email domains aren't the issue here. Creating a disposable @gmail account to avoid paying is possible too. Don't use emails to assert user identity. Most companies use credit cards for that. Or make it so that creating another account from scratch is more of a hassle than paying. Better yet, offer free tiers.
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