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Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

amc.sas.upenn.edu

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Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#101

Post by beaconstudios »

zozbot234 wrote: post #100
beaconstudios wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the "frankfurt school tried to invent a new communism" conspiracy theory. In actuality, "identity politics" is a big bracket of civil rights issues, some applications of which are good and some of which (the obvious example being cancel culture) are bad. But the whole point is to try to move towards an egalitarian society for queer, trans, ethnic, female etc people who have historically had the short end of t…

> This is the "frankfurt school tried to invent a new communism" conspiracy theory. Who said anything about the Frankfurt School? Mao Zedong quite literally tried to invent a new communism, and his Mao Zedong Thought was subverted by Lin Biao and the criminal Gang of Four to launch the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution", which called on educated youth to "destroy everything that's old and bourgeois and counter-r…

No post body was provided.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#102

Post by roenxi »

nerdponx wrote: post #69
roenxi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So my understanding of 'defund the police' is to reverse what happened in that and many similar situations... Most comments explaining "defund the police" seem to settle on a different meaning, because I've seen one or two around and this one is new to me. It is best to take political slogans literally. When a large group of people gets together and starts chanting something, then votes someone in who promises to e…

It seems pretty literal to me. Fund police less, fund other things more instead.

It is a possible interpretation. But there are a wide variety of interpretations of that slogan in a crowd of people chanting "defund the police". It isn't really possible to say that this specific interpretation is what the crowd means because in all likelihood even the crowd won't agree on any specific interpretation.

The other slogan doing the rounds at the same time - "all cops are bad" - suggests that there was a serious element who wanted to abolish the police on the basis that the entire police force was bad. That needs to be acknowledged if people are arguing about what the phrase means.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#103

Post by systemvoltage »

kristopolous wrote: post #76
uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

The key behind understanding the guy is he's always defending imperialism and the current power structure as the correct, natural and inevitable course of events, with no other alternative possible. He's been playing that same song for decades. You already know what his position on everything is and how he'll argue for it. The real amazing thing is how much he's committed to it

Isn't this an adhominem attack on the person's character without refuting the points? I agree with OP that some of the points are ridiculous, but why assassinate character like this?

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#104

Post by woopwoop »

uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

During the last administration, a leading Republican senator brought forth a bill to cut legal immigration by 50%. Many, many Republicans, or at least their elected representatives, want to restrict both legal and illegal immigration.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#105

Post by zozbot234 »

woopwoop wrote: post #104
uejfiweun wrote: post #27

I hate identity politics as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Fukuyama's takes here are pretty bad. He repeatedly paints massive groups with a large and indiscriminate brush. For instance: "The right seeks to cut off immigration altogether and would like to send immigrants back to their countries of origin." Uh, what? The United States is a nation of immigrants and we all know it. I don't think anyone wants…

During the last administration, a leading Republican senator brought forth a bill to cut legal immigration by 50%. Many, many Republicans, or at least their elected representatives, want to restrict both legal and illegal immigration. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act

The most relevant aim of that bill was to introduce a "points system" following the Canadian model, to encourage skilled immigration and easier integration of immigrants within mainstream society. This can sustain far greater volumes of migration in the long-term than the current mix of legal and illegal immigration to the U.S. It's the closest thing to "open borders" that can actually work without significant social disruption. And Canada proves it, because they've made it work.

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#106

Post by retinaros »

zozbot234 wrote: post #105
woopwoop wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the last administration, a leading Republican senator brought forth a bill to cut legal immigration by 50%. Many, many Republicans, or at least their elected representatives, want to restrict both legal and illegal immigration. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act

The most relevant aim of that bill was to introduce a "points system" following the Canadian model, to encourage skilled immigration and easier integration of immigrants within mainstream society. This can sustain far greater volumes of migration in the long-term than the current mix of legal and illegal immigration to the U.S. It's the closest thing to "open borders" that can actually work without significant social…

you guys already have a point system…

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#107

Post by woopwoop »

zozbot234 wrote: post #105
woopwoop wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the last administration, a leading Republican senator brought forth a bill to cut legal immigration by 50%. Many, many Republicans, or at least their elected representatives, want to restrict both legal and illegal immigration. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAISE_Act

The most relevant aim of that bill was to introduce a "points system" following the Canadian model, to encourage skilled immigration and easier integration of immigrants within mainstream society. This can sustain far greater volumes of migration in the long-term than the current mix of legal and illegal immigration to the U.S. It's the closest thing to "open borders" that can actually work without significant social…

Your assertion is that a bill which would have cut legal immigration by 50% was meant to raise immigration in the long term?

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#108

Post by retinaros »

e4e78a06 wrote: post #75
N1H1L wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-college educated working people? Lots of Hispanics and Blacks in that group, who surprisingly aren't that keen on Trump

Hispanics are not a homogenous group like you portray them to be. For example Republicans won Hispanics in Virginia this year [1]. There is a balance between more conservative leaning Hispanics from Central/South America, wealthier 3rd+ generation Hispanics who lean conservative, and more liberal recent Mexican demographics. All evidence from the past 2 elections in 2020 and 2021 indicate that Hispanics as a whole ar…

for democrats blacks or hispanics are like a hivemind. and for the ones that publicly state they are republican, they will call them uncle tom and ostracise them. this is the real racism ive seen in usa more so than the white identitarian politics

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#109

Post by Jeema101 »

moomin wrote: post #39

Quoted post unavailable.

Did you actually read it, though? He says "there is nothing wrong with identity politics as such; it is a natural and inevitable response to injustice. But the tendency of identity politics to focus on cultural issues has diverted energy and attention away from serious thinking on the part of progressives about how to reverse the 30-year trend in most liberal democracies toward greater socioeconomic inequality."

Re: Francis Fukuyama – Against Identity Politics

#110

Post by N1H1L »

oh_sigh wrote: post #77
N1H1L wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-college educated working people? Lots of Hispanics and Blacks in that group, who surprisingly aren't that keen on Trump

Trump got 30% of the Latino vote in 2020, more than republicans get historically.

That's still a huge disparity.
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