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Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

theguardian.com

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Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#21

Post by powersnail »

throwawaysea wrote: post #8
GavinMcG wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...that quote doesn't say "never change." It says that "look[ing] at what we need to thrive" is a "more likely" way to change, rather than trying to "look at what we need to...change."

It says “rather than change”. Doesn’t that preclude change? I interpreted it as accepting flaws and looking to “thrive” in other means that don’t involve fixing those flaws.

I think it means that we should "look at what we need to thrive", rather than to "look at what need to change". Not that you shouldn't ever change; just don't focus on the change itself when you are setting goals and concocting plans.

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#22

Post by wesapien »

tomcooks wrote: post #2

I wholeheartedly disagree with this defeatist attitude, which is supposed to magically lead to change more than actually planning and actioning chance itself. Nowhere in life change happens without trauma. Get good at trauma and you'll get good at life. I suggest to learn one's own limits through suffering and systematically repeated failure. It's the only way to build not only a map of current yourself, but also a t…

That sucks. Compare that to squares who didn't get bullied, straight B student, listened to parents advice and guidance, didn't abuse substances, got a degree, did 9-5 and got a house from it. No trauma needed.

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#23

Post by Ostrogodsky »

9dev wrote: post #14
yesenadam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowhere in life change happens without trauma. I found that shocking to read. It's a million miles from my experience of life. That sounds horrible. Perhaps you've found it true, but please stop saying it like it's true for everyone, a fact of life. I can't even imagine how you could believe such a thing, well, it works for you or something, I guess. Also, saying that then complaining in the same breath that someon…

You both seem to be on opposite ends of a spectrum. I agree with OP in that living implies a certain amount of suffering… at some point, life stops giving you things and starts taking things away. That is an inevitable consequence of being alive, and it fucking hurts to loose your best friends, or your parents. But you still can choose for yourself what you make of that.

No. That happens since you are born, you leave the comfort of the uterus, then eventually you cannot suck more your mom's tits, a new baby comes in and you are not longer the smallest one, you have to go to kindergarten,etc, etc, all those are pretty challenging/traumatic events when adjusted by age and then the changes keep coming. By all means not all changes are bad or even difficult but constantly through life you will have plenty of them. One thing I have learned in life is that you need to control very carefully your comfort and pleasure, too little and life is miserable, too much and you become indulgent, weak willed, afraid of change and you stagnate. Most humans live in the "too comfortable" spectrum (this not only means being materially comfortable, it may mean not trying to change, playing it safe, not daring to do things), so one or two whips courtesy of life could work wonders.

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#24

Post by solatic »

yesenadam wrote: post #11
tomcooks wrote: post #2

I wholeheartedly disagree with this defeatist attitude, which is supposed to magically lead to change more than actually planning and actioning chance itself. Nowhere in life change happens without trauma. Get good at trauma and you'll get good at life. I suggest to learn one's own limits through suffering and systematically repeated failure. It's the only way to build not only a map of current yourself, but also a t…

> Nowhere in life change happens without trauma. I found that shocking to read. It's a million miles from my experience of life. That sounds horrible. Perhaps you've found it true, but please stop saying it like it's true for everyone, a fact of life. I can't even imagine how you could believe such a thing, well, it works for you or something, I guess. Also, saying that then complaining in the same breath that someon…

I think you're responding to the use of the word trauma. OP is correct, but perhaps OP should have used a different word.

We don't make progress unless we take risks and move outside of our comfort zone. Sometimes, those risks don't pay off, and the result is painful in some way. Maybe that pain is "traumatic", maybe not. Certainly, if the risks don't pay off, then we need to be willing to live with the painful result. This necessarily requires an understanding that pain is OK, and that accepting the risk of pain is a necessary part of growth.

A lot of people like to fantasize about being on the other side, about having already undergone that personal growth. Fantasy is easy, but it's not a replacement for the real thing, and engaging in too much fantasy will give you feelings of guilt and/or resentment for not actually being on the other side. There are two healthy directions to deal with this: you either give up on the fantasy and accept being where you are (i.e. what the article advocates), or you fully accept the costs and risks that are needed to get there, so that you can actually start on the journey to get there.

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#25

Post by Ostrogodsky »

ylyn wrote: post #5
throwawaysea wrote: post #3

This seems like the opposite of being disciplined and actual self improvement. There’s a nuanced difference between healthily dealing with your flaws and accepting them as a way to excuse inaction. I feel like the attitude in this article is part of a greater cultural trend of justifying flaws rather than working to correct them. The “fat acceptance” or “healthy at every size” movement is similar, where healthy menta…

The article isn't saying you should be happy with you who you are and then never change. Come on.

It's not (at least not to an absolute degree) but I dont know if you are aware of the shtick of this author: "All self-help books suck, except mine because I tell you to dial down any hope and be happy with your mediocrity". Big meh.

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#27

Post by 202201150918 »

solatic wrote: post #24
yesenadam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowhere in life change happens without trauma. I found that shocking to read. It's a million miles from my experience of life. That sounds horrible. Perhaps you've found it true, but please stop saying it like it's true for everyone, a fact of life. I can't even imagine how you could believe such a thing, well, it works for you or something, I guess. Also, saying that then complaining in the same breath that someon…

I think you're responding to the use of the word trauma. OP is correct, but perhaps OP should have used a different word. We don't make progress unless we take risks and move outside of our comfort zone. Sometimes, those risks don't pay off, and the result is painful in some way. Maybe that pain is "traumatic", maybe not. Certainly, if the risks don't pay off, then we need to be willing to live with the painful resul…

Thousands of ancestors did not fight for comfort only for me to whine and complain "more". Embrace the comfort zone, for a heavy price had been paid for it by humanity!

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#28

Post by tuyiown »

tomcooks wrote: post #2

I wholeheartedly disagree with this defeatist attitude, which is supposed to magically lead to change more than actually planning and actioning chance itself. Nowhere in life change happens without trauma. Get good at trauma and you'll get good at life. I suggest to learn one's own limits through suffering and systematically repeated failure. It's the only way to build not only a map of current yourself, but also a t…

You are the defeatist: you seem to think people cannot get better without suffering.

The article just states that to actually be better, a good starter is to remove the useless comparison with an idealized future self, because it brings no good and it’s actually harmful.

At no point to actually stop trying to be better

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#29

Post by saiya-jin »

Ostrogodsky wrote: post #23
9dev wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You both seem to be on opposite ends of a spectrum. I agree with OP in that living implies a certain amount of suffering… at some point, life stops giving you things and starts taking things away. That is an inevitable consequence of being alive, and it fucking hurts to loose your best friends, or your parents. But you still can choose for yourself what you make of that.

No. That happens since you are born, you leave the comfort of the uterus, then eventually you cannot suck more your mom's tits, a new baby comes in and you are not longer the smallest one, you have to go to kindergarten,etc, etc, all those are pretty challenging/traumatic events when adjusted by age and then the changes keep coming. By all means not all changes are bad or even difficult but constantly through life yo…

Completely agree. Life's more intense parts that make all those sweet memories that one can be proud of for rest of ones life are well outside the comfort zone.

I see it daily in some of my former peers - literally frozen in space and time. By all means if that's your goal go for it, but when these folks are confronted with somebody more active, somebody who steps out of that comfort zone when needed (or cca lives there semi permanently) their reactions tell a different story.

When I was climbing Matterhorn, (or even Mont Blanc on skis in some places) there were certain times I was shitting myself from fear of the abyss and clear and present danger all around me. When I decided to get into paragliding, first solo flights were not so much different - 1km vertical drop just below your ass is something one can't prepare oneself beforehand. Those memories, and many many more are part of my core and will be there till I die, putting a slight smile on my face whenever I remember them or see the spot from afar.

Heck, being next to my wife when giving both births was not comfortable at all, seeing all that suffering and uncertainty and being able to do very little to alleviate it, but its one of those few moments that define me as a parent and human being.

Re: Self-improvement is embracing your messy, imperfect life

#30

Post by watwut »

Ostrogodsky wrote: post #23
9dev wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You both seem to be on opposite ends of a spectrum. I agree with OP in that living implies a certain amount of suffering… at some point, life stops giving you things and starts taking things away. That is an inevitable consequence of being alive, and it fucking hurts to loose your best friends, or your parents. But you still can choose for yourself what you make of that.

No. That happens since you are born, you leave the comfort of the uterus, then eventually you cannot suck more your mom's tits, a new baby comes in and you are not longer the smallest one, you have to go to kindergarten,etc, etc, all those are pretty challenging/traumatic events when adjusted by age and then the changes keep coming. By all means not all changes are bad or even difficult but constantly through life yo…

The word "traumatic" did not used to mean "somewhat uncomfortable". And most of the ones you mentioned are not even uncomfortable for all kids. Plenty of kids just loose interest in breastfeeding, goes to kindergarten without major issue and is curios/happy/indifferent when siblings come.
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