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Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

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Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#471

Post by simplestats »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #443
simplestats wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is principal engineer typical for 20 years experience where you are? Or are they typically stuck at senior engineer? Because if you're ahead of the average already like that, then indeed it will be hard to do better elsewhere. Having said that, yes I agree it does seem that at higher levels companies are a lot better about fitting compensation to that of competitors.

Where I'm at, which is a near faang, previously I was working at one and had offers from them, it's not about time, it's about working on multiple projects with significant accomplishments, a mixture of leader and IC usually, but you can still code today. Even if I admit to myself it's harder to code these days :-) I also see people really early in career 10;years getting principal jobs and I think that's just from c…

It's not completely about time you mean. Time is just a rough proxy for experience. It's not just about significant accomplishments either, but rather significant accomplishments that are recognized by your employer. For all you know that senior engineer was single-handedly key to their last company's success, but their manager got all the credit while the engineer got a 1.5 multiplier on their annual bonus.

But sure. My question was more about the meaning of principal where you are. At some places it's more like just another grade of senior engineer. While at others it's equivalent to a decent rung of middle management and part of a different salary range, to which the current discussions about tech employee pay may not apply so much.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#472

Post by b112 »

travisjungroth wrote: post #444
maxsilver wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm almost like a customer successs engineer, product manager, scrum master, senior developer and tech lead all rolled into one. This is also me. Except I really like it. But I'm not sure what to do about it, it can reflect super poorly on a resume for some reason. "Oh, your applying to be a Senior Engineer? Look at all this product management and developer manager experience on your resume, you must not really be…

I believe you, but that's surprising. I've generally had my well-roundedness very well-received.

The problem is, some cannot believe that high performers, can be experts in multiple branches of a field.

Their development slows to a crawl, as they get stuck in one role. Yours, and others like you, just keep that intense growth happening.

It isn't necessarily their fault, either. Circumstances can keep someone slotted deep in a role, with no way to expand laterally.

So, they may literally think such breadth and depth of experience is just overstatement.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#473

Post by godDLL »

hn_version_0023 wrote: post #469

I left my last gig as a datacenter tech when my employer made it abundantly clear that any of us dying of covid were “acceptable losses”. At the outset they immediately moved to make sure we were classified as “essential” and then attempted to compel us to keep working. When employees began dying I left. Because fuck you thats why. I’m not dying so some douchebag can have a second yacht. I’m happy to let the entire s…

Very much this.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#474

Post by memonkey »

cagey wrote: post #328

Rather than quit or retire, I lingered in hopes of being laid off (letting my high pay level, ageism and existing "we don't need Senior Engineers; we have really smart management to do the thinking ahead etc. for the junior engineers" attitudes run their natural course). I "achieved" being laid off 4 months ago at age 58 and collected a nice (9 months' pay) severance package as a precursor to (this month) finally dec…

Thanks for writing about your experience. It's kind of nice to see some wisdom being dropped about the current/long term affairs of what makes many company experiences very similar. It seems extremely difficult to find something that breaks the mold.

And congratulations on retiring! What do you think you'll do now? Given that you're wholly self-taught, I would assume you would dive in to your interests.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#475

Post by wobbly_bush »

maxsilver wrote: post #435
steveBK123 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many roles / too many hats is far too common and why I find it hard to stay anywhere more than 4-5 years. As a senior IC in a super-flat & growing org.. I'm almost like a customer successs engineer, product manager, scrum master, senior developer and tech lead all rolled into one. Management administrivia I accumulate administrative things my manager doesn't want to do & pushes down I do unofficially own a part o…

> I'm almost like a customer successs engineer, product manager, scrum master, senior developer and tech lead all rolled into one. This is also me. Except I really like it. But I'm not sure what to do about it, it can reflect super poorly on a resume for some reason. "Oh, your applying to be a Senior Engineer? Look at all this product management and developer manager experience on your resume, you must not really be…

Did you consider skipping the non-relevant parts from the resume and interview discussion? Once you make it in, perhaps you can show them your full background.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#476

Post by wanderingmind »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #9

My old boss Eric Carlsen used to say, nobody left because of money. They may get more money if they change jobs. But they start looking because they're unhappy. So when somebody asked for more money, he'd start by asking what was bothering them.

What's bothering me is the money you pay is not enough to cater for my expenses.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#477

Post by rad_gruchalski »

edgriebel wrote: post #344
toomuchtodo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the worker has another offer in hand, you've already lost as a hiring manager/org.

^^^^ yes! Your worker already has one foot out the door and has seen the greener grass outside the door. Is it really greener? Probably not but will be to them!

Ah, the green pasture. It always looks green until one steps on it.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#478

Post by BeetleB »

mawise wrote: post #250
ghaff wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't looked at it in years but I remember Getting to Yes as being a great little book on negotiation. Maybe there are better books out there but I found it a good place to start. There are a number of other things in there too. For example, you may not have the same priorities as the person you're negotiating with.

I'd recommend _Never Split The Difference_, by former Chief FBI Hostage Negotiator Chris Voss. Very fun read and widely applicable. Spoiler: His advice is not to strong-arm, but to build trust with your counterpart.

Terrible book that has some gems.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21769264

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19059590

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25309966

Edit: Yes dang, I did copy/paste a prior comment of mine, but it seemed silly to post a link to a comment that itself is just links!

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#479

Post by BeetleB »

ghaff wrote: post #234
alex_anglin wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negotiating courses often refer to this as the BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement). Considering what that scenario is and having it as your bottom line is the best piece of advice they impart.

Haven't looked at it in years but I remember Getting to Yes as being a great little book on negotiation. Maybe there are better books out there but I found it a good place to start. There are a number of other things in there too. For example, you may not have the same priorities as the person you're negotiating with.

It's an OK book. I really liked "Bargaining for Advantage".

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#480

Post by BeetleB »

pdimitar wrote: post #467
laserlight wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hostage negotiation is a game played once between parties. Most of daily life situations are repeated games, in which dynamics are different. I found that the author was biased by their experience in one-off games and their suggestions wouldn’t generalize well into repeated games. Unfortunately, there is no acknowledgement of this until the very end of the book. Still a good read though.

Not sure I understand the distinction you're making, isn't interviewing with one particular company a one-off game as well?

> Not sure I understand the distinction you're making, isn't interviewing with one particular company a one-off game as well?

No. In a situation where you're thinking of leaving, you are negotiating with your manager. That's a relationship that will continue if you stay.

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