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Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

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Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#391

Post by strgcmc »

steveBK123 wrote: post #364
strgcmc wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH, reading this as a manager, I have to admit I feel like asking my engineers to take on SOME of these beyond-just-the-code duties... is a good thing? Obviously there are a bunch of caveats, and nuances to whether you want an IC engineer to be 100% coding and 0% talking to customers or doing admin (this seems bad), or is it 90% vs 10% (maybe okay), or 80/20 (sweet spot?), 50/50 (concerning), 20/80 (bad again), etc.…

Right, I'm rather experienced and make many multiples of 50k/yr, so its not really a compensation thing. It's more that it feels very ephemeral / tenuous as none of it is in an org chart or official. It is basically what problems management has to solve and what seniors are available at the moment. I am, officially in title and org chart an IC. In reality 10-20% of my time is IC dev work. 6 months ago it was 50%, 6 m…

It can be better, but it also can be just as chaotic sometimes. On balance overall, FAANGs are probably better at managing this "IC utilization" rate if you wanna call it that, vs just randomly expecting you to pick up and wear all the hats all the time or that hats are chaotically assigned, with no plan behind it. Certainly FAANGs aren't perfect, but at least it's easier to find "reference implementations" because there certainly are some very high-performing and well-managed teams, and if you're not on one yourself, then you can at least have the benefit of being able to see-and-compare, which then provides a potential for betterment and learning from others (which might be harder in non-FAANGs).

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#392

Post by ivalm »

citizenpaul wrote: post #321
ericmcer wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been surprised how emotionally unaware many of my managers are. They are engineers who moved to management and seem to think reading a bunch of books on management will make them adept at the social skills needed to read and adapt to individuals and a teams emotional state. Compensation is huge but good software devs are all making enough to where a 20-30% swing in either direction isn't going to make or break…

20-30% ?? What kind of money are you assuming most people make. at anything over 100k a year that is a lot of extra money anything less and it is probably needed. It could simply be used to retire a few years earlier if nothing else. It could pay for vacation. It could pay off a vehicle. It could pay down a mortgage or appraisal gap in this market. A 20% raise is huge at any income level.

Marginal value of money decreases the more money you have as consumption doesn't really scale up. Easily one should take a nice 500k/year job vs a stressful 600k/year job.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#393

Post by sorry_outta_gas »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #231
newsbinator wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made I don't hint because it's too confusing. I try to very politely offer options, where one option is me looking for another opportunity. It's not as though it's a secret to either party that's always an option.

This. Employer might not have even known quitting was on the table if there is only a hint. Be bold and direct to reduce miscommunication and you'll be the one standing with integrity.

quitting is always on the table, thinking otherwise is silly

people evaulate what they are doing constnatly

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#394

Post by mym1990 »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #73
diob wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the old generation really bought into this, but the new generation knows it's a load of bull. The poll makes it pretty obvious that compensation is the biggest reason folks leave, and it's the thinking of the old generation who doesn't know how to retain talent (they do, but they keep throwing pizza parties / sending out merch instead). It's a real "it can't be helped" mentality around retention.

Why is compensation #1 though? There is a threshold where you have enough money and it's easier to work with people you know and like. So, what do they need that extra money for? As I mentioned elsewhere housing is currently the #1 issues I see here in Canada that people are focused on. If you are a front line person, making $15 at a restaurant, plus renting where housing costs $1m+, you are probably looking for opti…

Most people are not making 400k as a dev. People are leaving due to compensation because it is a strong market for seekers right now, and all things equal it is not rational to leave 20k+ a year on the table if you have even partially complete information(which a lot of people do nowadays).

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#395

Post by catdog »

strgcmc wrote: post #339
steveBK123 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many roles / too many hats is far too common and why I find it hard to stay anywhere more than 4-5 years. As a senior IC in a super-flat & growing org.. I'm almost like a customer successs engineer, product manager, scrum master, senior developer and tech lead all rolled into one. Management administrivia I accumulate administrative things my manager doesn't want to do & pushes down I do unofficially own a part o…

TBH, reading this as a manager, I have to admit I feel like asking my engineers to take on SOME of these beyond-just-the-code duties... is a good thing? Obviously there are a bunch of caveats, and nuances to whether you want an IC engineer to be 100% coding and 0% talking to customers or doing admin (this seems bad), or is it 90% vs 10% (maybe okay), or 80/20 (sweet spot?), 50/50 (concerning), 20/80 (bad again), etc.…

> TBH, reading this as a manager, I have to admit I feel like asking my engineers to take on SOME of these beyond-just-the-code duties... is a good thing? Obviously there are a bunch of caveats, and nuances to whether you want an IC engineer to be 100% coding and 0% talking to customers or doing admin (this seems bad), or is it 90% vs 10% (maybe okay), or 80/20 (sweet spot?), 50/50 (concerning), 20/80 (bad again), etc.

1. Agree 100% coding and nothing else is bad most of the time. You can leave out admin tasks but engineering is more than just coding, it's problem solving. Understanding requirements (e.g. by talking to customers) is crucial and also the best code is the code that had to be never written.

2. Think that is also in large part an individual thing, some people like to wear multiple hats to some individually varying degree while others don't.

3. It must work out in practice and you have to make sure the sum of both does not result in a value above 100%

4. I agree if the technical stuff is as low as 20% it may be better to just transfer in another role completely as it is hard to contribute meaningfully there then.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#396

Post by [deleted] »

y4mi wrote: post #208
Flow wrote: post #155

For more than a year I've been trying to get it clear to my boss that I'm too stressed and need a less chaotic workplace. The last months I've had constant headache and fuzzy vision. I checked my blood pressure and it was 180/95. Ten months earlier when I last checked it it was 130/83. On medication now, but my heart beats so hard sometimes I think I need more medication. When I told my boss about this, he said the u…

> Leave, and start my own company. I don't think that's going to be less stressful... Good luck though!

[deleted]

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#397

Post by gwd »

TehShrike wrote: post #330
ethbr0 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly support playing negotiation and/or lying+consequence board games with children. The skills are lifelong, and the stakes are much lower than when they have to exercise them in the real world. Coup [0] and Love Letter [1] are both easy entry and quick play examples. Also, I got in the habit of making my kids negotiate their own payment for household tasks. With agreement based on the skill with which they do s…

Cockroach Poker is another good bluffing game that 4-year-olds can play.

That's a good one to play with in-laws who don't speak your language as well.

But as much as I enjoy it, I'm not entirely convinced there's any more to it than straight up luck.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#399

Post by hiq »

Osiris wrote: post #361
HideousKojima wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong disagree for me. I'm starting a new job in less than two weeks, but the current job I'm leaving has been the best so far in my career. Wasn't perfect by any means but it exceeded most of my expectations by far. My new job is paying 60% more than my current job, that's my reason for switching and not much else.

If you were so happy why did you start looking for another job? People don't leave because someone gave them an offer out of the blue. They have to start looking in the first place and whatever triggered that search is what's important.

> why did you start looking for another job?

I can think of the following, and there are probably others:

1. To know your market value so that you know what to ask for during your compensation review at your current company.

2. To practice interviewing skills when you don't need them, so that it's easier when you do

3. To network and learn about companies that might be relevant for you in the future (as in, you wouldn't accept an offer now, but if it looks nice you might apply again later, and if it doesn't you might consider it only as a last resort).

2. especially makes sense for coding interviews, and I've been advising the following to a few friends: ideally, one year before you actually want to apply, apply everywhere you can with such interviews. Your results won't matter anyway, you'll be able to apply again one year after, but you'll get a lot of real-world practice and an idea of what you might want to work on.

Re: Poll: Why are people leaving their jobs?

#400

Post by ftlio »

daenz wrote: post #54

I'll be departing my job at the end of the month. I had too many roles, affecting too many pieces of engineering, and my title didn't reflect my work. I needed to go down to a 4 day work week and have my title reflect my roles, but my manager attempted to call my bluff and essentially said it's not going to happen. I hinted about what my decision would have to be if these accomodations couldn't be made, but he didn't…

Every time I leave a job, there's suddenly the money I was asking for available. If someone was asking for a raise and you couldn't give it to them, and then they turn in their notice, and then there's onus to retain them at their original ask, the only thing to say is "congrats, we definitely regret not making things work for you here".
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