281–290 of 348 posts
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They are afraid that Australian people who made the effort of being locked down and getting vaccinated would be unhappy that some Tennis star would not be required to do the same effort. That's perfectly understandable IMO.
What are those unhappy people going to do? Write a few angry comments in twitter and get their accounts banned? The true reason must be something else.
Is omnicron worse than a common cold? Maybe the colloquial you always get a new virus with every common cold is also true of covid. If vaccinated people are spreading covid (and maybe more so since their symptoms are probably so minor), what good does banning an athlete in great health do? All it proves is this is about politics and power, not health. At this point all those who go along with this charade, insisting…
> Is omnicron worse than a common cold? Yes, in many cases substantially worse. > If vaccinated people are spreading covid, and maybe more so That's not accurate either.
"Many" is not remotely specific. It's hand-waving. "Many" people who drive cars die in car accidents. It's hand-wavy and vague, and is often an indication of cognitive dissonance to argue this way. The confidence with which these assertions are being made is unearned and unjustified.
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Yes, omicron is much worse than a common cold or the flu. Completely unvaccinated persons are still in quite a danger for life through it. The virus is known not only to cause death, but to cause organ damages even with lighter case and having likely long term effects. The whole affair isn't because he is likely a major risk to the population of Australia - that can be easily ruled out by a test, but about failing to…
This is the whole thing that has to stop though. We bring up how deadly covid is, and how vaccinations help reduce symptoms, but no one is pointing out the most insane thing of the blatant discrimination against unvaccinated people to be denied entry to a place without proof of vaccination, even though, vaccinated people are still spreading the disease. I’m sorry but supporting this crap is insanity. You literally ar…
Damn right it is, and they ought to be discriminated against for the safety of others—and that includes me!
I don't want any unvaccinated person near me because I am more likely to die as a consequence and I expect the Government to keep them away from me at all costs—for it is the constitutional duty of government to protect me as a citizen from threat and danger.
Clearly, you do not realize that this is how our governance works (or is supposed to work). (It seems that you never did civics or history at school).
To enlighten you, democratic government works on the principle of a covenant that exists between the citizenry and government, which boils down to this: 'Citizens, do the right thing and obey the laws and in return we, the government, will protect you from harm and danger'.
Government protects its citizens against external enemies with an army, it protects them against internal threats with a police force, and when an unseen pandemic virus threatens, it then takes many other measures to protect us citizens including introduction of special rules, quarantining and isolating those with disease etc.
It has always been thus for centuries across many counties. How many instances and examples would you like? Do an internet search. Just because these facts are new to you and that you have never previously experienced a pandemic in your lifetime then it doesn't mean that such action by governments is not normal practice. Well, I can assure that it fucking-well is normal practice and that you need to get used to the fact or alternatively withdraw from society altogether.
If you still do not follow then let me give you an in-your-face example that you will understand: if someone decides to walk down the main street of a city brandishing and firing an AK47 at random then citizens expect the police to arrest and demobilize him immediately (if he's unlucky then he'll likely be shot dead in the process).
Well, the situation with a person loose in society who is carrying a lethal virus that can kill those who catch it only differs by fact that the person may not know that they are carrying said virus—hence general rules for everyone apply—isolation, masks, etc., etc. Now if that person is knowingly carrying the virus and then deliberately defies authority then he/she is no different to the person who is carrying the AK47 and he/she needs to be arrested and isolated immediately for the very reason that he/she is a danger to everybody that he/she comes in contact with! QED!
You many think this is insanity but very thankfully, most people and most governments around the world disagree with your view. We're also very thankful for that fact that those who hold views such as yours are in the minority.
For your information, those who are vaccinated are far less likely to spread the virus in anywhere near the same quantities. It is not a perfect situation but it's a damned side better scenario for an uninfected person to come in contact with a vaccinated person with the virus than one who has the virus and is not vaccinated. Whatever you may think, there is absolutely no argument against this. That's why everyone is still subject to virus hygiene rules. And in case if you've forgotten, hygiene rules have existed across society long before the arrival of COVID; these new rules are only an extension thereof.
Perhaps you would like to explain why you think the way you do.
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> Is omnicron worse than a common cold? Yes, in many cases substantially worse. > If vaccinated people are spreading covid, and maybe more so That's not accurate either.
No it is accurate. Vaccinated people are spreading and getting covid. Or are the masks for vaccinated folks just show?
But not "more so". Not even equal. it is less, and to say otherwise is inaccurate.
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COVID deaths in Australia are currently the highest they've ever been, how many people usually die of colds in a given day?
What does this have to do with vaccine mandates? Vaccines do NOT prevent you from getting it or spreading the disease. Weird how these heavily vaccinated countries are still getting slammed by covid. And what do you really think it must be those stubborn unvaccinated people? We as society would be better off if we pretended it was just like the common cold, and guess what, you might get sick and die, but most likely…
Do not think of this is binary "protect or does not" that is never the case. There are no absolutes. it's not ones and zeros, it's probabilities.
Vaccines _greatly reduce_ the chance of you getting it or spreading it, or being hospitalised with it. That is undeniable, do not obfuscate it with technically-true but actually-misleading statements.
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This is the whole thing that has to stop though. We bring up how deadly covid is, and how vaccinations help reduce symptoms, but no one is pointing out the most insane thing of the blatant discrimination against unvaccinated people to be denied entry to a place without proof of vaccination, even though, vaccinated people are still spreading the disease. I’m sorry but supporting this crap is insanity. You literally ar…
"...blatant discrimination against unvaccinated" Damn right it is, and they ought to be discriminated against for the safety of others—and that includes me! I don't want any unvaccinated person near me because I am more likely to die as a consequence and I expect the Government to keep them away from me at all costs—for it is the constitutional duty of government to protect me as a citizen from threat and danger. Cle…
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My point is that he had followed the stablished process to request an exemption and it was granted. He didn’t get special treatment because the application process is blind.
It was an exemption to State Covid-19 rules, not an exemption to enter the country. Him and his team are purposefully muddying the waters with this exemption in an attempt to bully the country into letting him in, even though he's violated their laws and is not following their regulations.
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Correct thing to do at this point is really to exclude Australian Open from future glam slam. Just drop entire Australia from it. I get that they have the right to deny anyone in but they making this entire scene due PURELY as political brownie points. Sports should stay neutral. They (entiee Australia) should be punished for dragging sports into this. Better yet deny entire Australia from any world tennis events for…
”Sports should stay neutral.” Right, it should but that's not the issue. Right again, Australian politicians have fucked up their response to COVID on multiple occasions but so have other many countries—name one that hasn’t! And I include Serbia in that lot, it having only 50% of its citizens vaccinated; currently, it has one of the worst vaccination records in all Europe. Leaving Australia aside for the moment, ther…
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I’m Serbian as well and I haven’t heard him say any anti-vaxx statement. It’s more of a result of witch-hunt than him actually being anti-vaxx. Another thing is, why he needs a vaccine? He had Covid, giving him long lasting immunity. Vaccines stop the spread at the same level or even less than Covid immunity, so what’s the point? Just politics, there’s absolutely no reason for someone like him to risk myocarditis, he…
He's had covid twice, once in June 2020 and now in December 2021, a good example of immunity by infection not being worth much.
Did he die? Did he suffer severe symptoms? No.
What makes this different than a vaccinated person contracting the virus and having mild/no symptoms?
You took a vaccine that has not been updated since it was created to target the Alpha variant. He caught a previous variant, and both of you are not protected from contracting omicron. However, both of you are at far lower risk of severe illness due to the previous exposure your immune systems have to the virus. The only difference is the payload. He was exposed to an entire virus, and therefore his antibodies/t-cells are less targeted and broader. You were exposed only to the spike protein which coats the virus, and therefore have a highly targeted immune response that is less broad. So what?
The results are what matter. This is just religious posturing. You want everyone to take the same sacrament as you, regardless of outcomes.
There are multiple studies with massive cohorts (the Israeli study has 2.5 MILLION people in it) that show that this virus is TYPICAL in the sense that when someone catches it, then clears it, the immune system is behind this. Previously infected people were proven in this study to have superior immunity to delta than fully vaccinated people, and the margins were not small.
But sure, ignore that and focus on your sample size of 1 to confirm your priors.
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I asked multiple people in this thread, what the scientific argument is for mandating that Djokovic gets vaccinated before being able to participate, given his specific situation and what we know about vaccine efficacy (especially since Omicron) and side effects (especially in his cohort) to this date. Nobody was able to answer this question sufficiently so far. If there is no sufficient scientific basis for such a m…
There's no need for any scientific argument, really. Australia is a sovereign country that controls under what conditions they allow people to come in, and is perfectly free to ask people to stand on their head for 5 minutes as an entry condition, if they want to. Look into your own country's visa terms, it's by no means trivial to get in somewhere, and it often requires satisfying some requirements that are not at a…