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Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

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Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

#121

Post by southerntofu »

cm2187 wrote: post #120
southerntofu wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the phone network can't be hacked, perhaps? Also in my views, that something cannot be monetized is a feature, not a bug: trying to monetize WWW/email is precisely what led to the horrors we know today of mass advertisement and surveillance.

It is because it cannot be monetised that we have mass advertisements. Some websites would be viable economically without advertising if they could seaminglessly charge a modest amount to customers.

Advertisement is a form of monetization. Now the question is about what you mean with "viable economically". Operating a website is pretty cheap and many non-profits are happy to do it for you for free, for a free-price, or for a membership due (usually 5-20€/year).

If you're trying to get an income from operating a website (or any other creative activity for that matter) that's a different matter. That's what i was referring to with "monetization". I personally believe that we as a species would be better off if less energy was spent trying to monetize everything and more into providing actual services to actual people.

Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

#122

Post by Agingcoder »

southerntofu wrote: post #117
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minitel was probably subject to substantial government regulation, unlike the "tech" companies that dominate the web and overinfluence the internet. Minitel was probably funded at least in part through taxation. Certainly, Minitel was not a secretive Silicon Valley-styled company with dual class shares or other entrenching governance structures, that allow for concentration of voting power in the hands of company ins…

> It seems the French do not have the same hatred of telecom that Amercians do. Oh yes we do. France Telecom back in the day wasn't all that bad, but the prices were crazy: copper is expensive but not so much that you should pay every month dozens of francs (before the euro, don't remember the exact number) without even paying for usage. But at least from what i remember tech support and intervention times were decen…

I think 15 ff/ hour (about 2.5euros), if memory serves me well for a local call. Minitel was more expensive ( 3615 i think was typically closer to 15 euros/hour.

It was brutally expensive actually.

Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

#123

Post by thetis »

renaudg wrote: post #75
miniwark wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only partly true, many people indeed have a Minitel at home, because it was free to have one (like it was free to have a landline phone). You only had to pay for the usage. And there was great services not yet available on WWW : find the train timetable, find the phone number of someone, chat with a (fake) sexy girl... As for the PC penetration, there was many, but most of them where not ready for network usage…

> The real thing than Minitel hindred in France are Bulletin Board Systems. They where never really a thing in France. As a Frenchman who spent most of my high school evenings on demoscene-oriented BBSes like A.C.E., Dune and Eden, I'll beg to differ and raise this : http://web.fdn.fr/~musical/bbsf.txt :)

not listed here but some guys owned old ATARI computers on which they implemented Minitel servers with a toll free phone number. Some were famous for their HP48 calculator community (and were in relationship with HP to organize HP Party) Most famous names were RTC ONE and PULSAR. They were really a pre-internet community with forum & chat. Crazy people at crazy times and exciting time in my life.

Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

#124

Post by agumonkey »

southerntofu wrote: post #108
agumonkey wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all solar powered on an esp32 thingie

ESP32 is way too powerful compared to a Minitel. They had zero processing power and simply drew to the screen whatever was typed/received.

then it will host 128 virtual minitels to dispatch onto attiny85 oled displays

Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

#125

Post by npunt »

southerntofu wrote: post #112
npunt wrote: post #95

This reminds me of the Nortel Displayphone [1], a similar all-in-one computer with 1200bps modem and keyboard. By the time I got mine from a friend in ~1992 it was already way outclassed by PCs, but I loved the hardware integration and the alt-future it suggested. I used it to log into a few BBSes before getting bored with the slow speed and amber monochrome screen. If I'd been older & had one in the early/mid 80s I'…

Where do you live? Don't you think some folks from your neighborhood would appreciate some local services? A local goods exchange (craigslist-like), a local chatroom, and a local media library full of movies and documentaries? It makes even more sense if you can do it on LAN, which can be an incentive to develop your own local ISP (which you should do for other more serious political reasons anyway)... :-)

I think it's more that the cultural opportunity has passed for local-first digital experiences, where the world's affairs are far away and local affairs are close. Let alone the increasingly challenged defaultness of the physical world. We're way too connected for connection to be special anymore, unless we all decide to take a few steps back from the digital world.

Perhaps in other cultures and contexts (probably far smaller and tight-knit ones) it may be possible to build the kind of infrastructure to enhance civic spirit, but I fear in the US at least it'd devolve into Nextdoor-style neighbor gripes which are mostly indistinguishable from the arguments on any other fora.

Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

#126

Post by mfuzzey »

bernardlunn wrote: post #21

And in UK we had Prestel, also ahead of its time but run by a telco and disrupted by the PC. I woz there, said the old Geezer

Yes Prestel was the same technology as minitel.

But the French bootstrapped the ecosystem by giving everyone who wanted it a free minitel instead of a printed directory which didn't happen in the UK, due to that Prestel never really took off.

Re: Minitel: The Online World France Built Before the Web (2017)

#127

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

southerntofu wrote: post #117
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minitel was probably subject to substantial government regulation, unlike the "tech" companies that dominate the web and overinfluence the internet. Minitel was probably funded at least in part through taxation. Certainly, Minitel was not a secretive Silicon Valley-styled company with dual class shares or other entrenching governance structures, that allow for concentration of voting power in the hands of company ins…

> It seems the French do not have the same hatred of telecom that Amercians do. Oh yes we do. France Telecom back in the day wasn't all that bad, but the prices were crazy: copper is expensive but not so much that you should pay every month dozens of francs (before the euro, don't remember the exact number) without even paying for usage. But at least from what i remember tech support and intervention times were decen…

I should have used the past tense.

s/do/did/

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