Toxic culture is driving the great resignation • Hacker News Board

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#251

Post by pedrosorio » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

marcyb5st wrote: post #111

throwaway013389 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While working for a FAANG in Europe me and a lot of colleagues have been offered to relocate to the US. With a big salary increase as you can imagine. Believe me or not, very few people accepted. Surprisingly for me.

I'm a Googler working in Switzerland and have been offered the same package and I refused the offer almost on the spot. There are 3 reasons for me: 1) Salary change not worth it. Switzerland already pays a lot and for me it's the sweet spot for quality of living / disposable income. Considered the cost of living in SV I would be saving more or less the same amount of money regardless of the bump in compensation. 2) U…

To be fair regarding 3) nothing forces you to commute for an hour on 101.

That will be the case (riding a comfortable shuttle with WiFi) if you work in Mountain View and want to live in San Francisco (65km away). You can either move (much) closer to the office or just work in San Francisco (more likely if you find another employer).

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#252

Post by hogrider » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

To me this is clearly worker exploitation and I wish everyone realized that.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#253

Post by UIUC_06 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:44 PM UTC

Wokeness alert! Did some censor insert this phrase after the rest of the article was written?

"the leading elements contributing to toxic cultures include failure to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion"

and yet there is no other mention of "diversity" anywhere in the article, and no surveyed person mentioned it.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#254

Post by sys_64738 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:45 PM UTC

zackify wrote: post #116

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role at my friends company if they couldn’t come up. I explained to them nicely that I would rather stay, but I can’t without a large raise. It can be done, but it would have never happened without me pushing them. No company is going to willingly throw out raises th…

As long as you're willing to walk if this fails. Also, be aware that your card will be marked and considered somebody who will try this again in the future. I'd expect most companies would reduce the risk of such by making sure what you do has overlap with others. Come the time I expect you'll be managed or re-org'd out the door.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#255

Post by KennyBlanken » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:46 PM UTC

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #169

gwd wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you think of "toxic work culture", is "failure to promote diversity" the first thing that comes to mind? Are people really quitting SpaceX and Netflix in droves because they're not sufficiently supporting minority / LGBTQ rights? If anything, doing some "window dressing" for "diversity" is probably a lot easier than actually changing toxic patterns of behavior of the existing set of employees. (And of course act…

Actually aggressively promoting "diversity" (like forcing people into diversity trainings) would count as toxic workplace culture to me.

I'm a straight white cis male well into adulthood and somehow I've never been "forced" into this diversity training you're concerned about. I've never seen it happen. I don't know a single coworker who has had it happen to them. I don't know a single friend who has.

If you've been "forced" into diversity training, especially if it's happened to you more than once and doubly so if it hasn't happened to others on your teams - you might want to engage in a bit of self-introspection.

Your comment really feels like the kind of comment I would expect from someone who does in fact need 'diversity training'.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#256

Post by brundolf » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

zero41a wrote: post #225

skrebbel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

Some of it is just an obsession with money, yes, but I think there are several drivers. I can really only speak for myself. 1. Healthcare costs: insane even with the good insurance I have. I'm chronically ill (though you wouldnt know it by looking at me) and I have to get a battery of simple tests done every year in order to not have my medicine withheld by my doctor (yes...they withhold it). These tests get expensiv…

What some people do is make U.S. money while they’re young, and then move to a more stable country when they want to settle down

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#257

Post by Aperocky » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

zero41a wrote: post #232

pembrook wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for hilariously illustrating how bubble-y the current moment feels. If you think dramatically increasing compensation is going to continue in the next decade like it has in the last one, I think you might be disappointed. Now that companies are comfortable with remote, HR departments are eventually going to realize that services like Deel exist, and that its not actually that hard to hire employees overseas…

My company has been in the foreign contractor market for a while. I still make a massive US salary. Having been on the hiring team for many of these contractor shops I can tell you that the skill level of contractors in India/Africa/China/Ukraine has another 5-10 years before it even begins to approach the average skill of a seasoned American engineer. For a while my business as an independent contractor was quite li…

Another perspective to consider is that the best talent in those countries (specifically China and India) are not going to these consulting firms.

China in particular have large tech companies (e.g. tiktok) that offer pays that almost matches the US, which skimmed the best engineers away from these contracting jobs.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#258

Post by unethical_ban » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

UIUC_06 wrote: post #253

Wokeness alert! Did some censor insert this phrase after the rest of the article was written? "the leading elements contributing to toxic cultures include failure to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion" and yet there is no other mention of "diversity" anywhere in the article, and no surveyed person mentioned it.

Well, one of the two cited references have diversity in their article several times. I don't know how to sift through the BLS reference.

Is there any indication that sentence needs a citation more than other claims and assertions? Is there something about the idea that an overly homogenous workplace leads to (or attracts) people with less decency and politeness?

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#259

Post by varelse » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

quietbritishjim wrote: post #56

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

> An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that engineer will likely be offered a 3-5% raise. Although I agree with your overall point, I disagree with this line of reasoning. I think the pay offered to an engineer already takes into account that they will understand the tech stack after six…

As long as you are classified as an at will employee you should give your employer at will loyalty. They don't owe you anything and you don't owe them anything either beyond the responsibilities of your job in exchange for whatever they're paying you.

It's up to them to make sticking around your best option. But when I'm on interview panels and someone brings up that the person in question is a job hopper, rather than see that as a negative, I see it as a challenge to find a way to get that person to stick around. And the only thing that offends me when someone quits is if the offer to do so isn't better than sticking around.

I am not popular with my fellow managers with this attitude and I expect downvotes for this. Bring 'em. It really doesn't matter to me anymore, the remainder of my career will be spent on making hard things easier rather than making easy things harder.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#260

Post by treeman79 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

massysett wrote: post #135

sbarre wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In effect, you threatened them into giving you a raise. And I'll say congrats on getting it, but are you at all concerned about your ongoing relationship with management? Do they think "he's good for a few years at least now" in terms of comp adjustment, and/or do you expect a raise again next year? At my company, I understand (but have not seen first hand) that anyone who tries this (either comes to the table with a…

This is not at all a risky play, because GP was willing to walk. It’s a true negotiation only if you’re willing to walk out. So to negotiate, realistically assess the availability of other options, and whether you’d accept them. If you’re not willing to walk, it’s just a game of chicken. That can indeed be risky, as then you might lose what you have with no fallback and no alternative.

Agreed. Also. Make sure you gave six months income easily accessible. Negotiating when living month-to-month is extremely different thing then when you have lots of leeway.