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Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

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Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#131

Post by sbarre »

zackify wrote: post #116
Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role at my friends company if they couldn’t come up. I explained to them nicely that I would rather stay, but I can’t without a large raise. It can be done, but it would have never happened without me pushing them. No company is going to willingly throw out raises th…

In effect, you threatened them into giving you a raise. And I'll say congrats on getting it, but are you at all concerned about your ongoing relationship with management? Do they think "he's good for a few years at least now" in terms of comp adjustment, and/or do you expect a raise again next year?

At my company, I understand (but have not seen first hand) that anyone who tries this (either comes to the table with a competing job offer in hand or threatens to leave in specific terms) is told "we thank you for your time here, best of luck"... Because it is assumed they are not dedicated to the company and so investing further in them is not wise. This is old-school thinking in my opinion, but it's probably still how a lot of places think.

Unless you are _critical_ to a project or team, it's a risky play.

Generally speaking it's a dilemma for sure, and I'm not picking a side here, but I have to imagine there is a lot of tension these days in companies due to these kinds of pressures.

Again, good for you for negotiating a better comp for yourself though!

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#133

Post by koonsolo »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #56
Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

> An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that engineer will likely be offered a 3-5% raise. Although I agree with your overall point, I disagree with this line of reasoning. I think the pay offered to an engineer already takes into account that they will understand the tech stack after six…

I agree with the both of you, so here is my simple version:

Companies rely on the fact that you stay a couple of years at least. So if you want to make good deal, you need to switch jobs more often.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#135

Post by massysett »

sbarre wrote: post #131
zackify wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role at my friends company if they couldn’t come up. I explained to them nicely that I would rather stay, but I can’t without a large raise. It can be done, but it would have never happened without me pushing them. No company is going to willingly throw out raises th…

In effect, you threatened them into giving you a raise. And I'll say congrats on getting it, but are you at all concerned about your ongoing relationship with management? Do they think "he's good for a few years at least now" in terms of comp adjustment, and/or do you expect a raise again next year? At my company, I understand (but have not seen first hand) that anyone who tries this (either comes to the table with a…

This is not at all a risky play, because GP was willing to walk.

It’s a true negotiation only if you’re willing to walk out. So to negotiate, realistically assess the availability of other options, and whether you’d accept them.

If you’re not willing to walk, it’s just a game of chicken. That can indeed be risky, as then you might lose what you have with no fallback and no alternative.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#136

Post by jimktrains2 »

goodpoint wrote: post #92
echelon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as the Devil's advocate, organizations want headcount to be fungible. If hiring and churn were huge issues for most companies, they would actively combat it. Instead, they've all mostly settled into the practice you see. Engineers typically do a 1-2 year tour of duty, vest, then bounce onto greener pastures. Steady state flux. In some senses, new talent also bring in new ideas and combat skeptical dispositio…

> new talent also bring in new ideas and combat skeptical dispositions and organizational ossification Ossification happens when most of the employees stay in the same company and even the same team for 20 or 30 years. The industry is facing the opposite problem, where the average tour of duty is so short that people don't care about planning for the future or designing lasting, low-maintenance software. Endless, unn…

Ossification doesn't have to happen though. Continuing education and some time to "practice" and try new things on a smaller scale can do wonders.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#137

Post by mrkentutbabi »

skrebbel wrote: post #10
foolfoolz wrote: post #7

> Our analysis found that the leading elements contributing to toxic cultures include failure to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion; workers feeling disrespected; and unethical behavior I don’t really believe these reasons or at least they don’t match what i’ve seen. I can only speak for FAANG: I think this is more compensation based than anything else. In an effort to level the playing field FAANGS establish l…

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

America is an individualist country and individualism is rewarded. We don’t care about average people. We care about our own ethnicity, our own identity, our own family, our own self. We are just playing the game here. Don’t blame the player. Blame the game.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#138

Post by rimliu »

sbarre wrote: post #131
zackify wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role at my friends company if they couldn’t come up. I explained to them nicely that I would rather stay, but I can’t without a large raise. It can be done, but it would have never happened without me pushing them. No company is going to willingly throw out raises th…

In effect, you threatened them into giving you a raise. And I'll say congrats on getting it, but are you at all concerned about your ongoing relationship with management? Do they think "he's good for a few years at least now" in terms of comp adjustment, and/or do you expect a raise again next year? At my company, I understand (but have not seen first hand) that anyone who tries this (either comes to the table with a…

Is "dedicated to the company" mentality still a thing? Let's say the same company buys supplies form supplier X. Then supplier Y shows up with 30% reduced price, same quality. Do you think the company will show "dedication" for the supplier X? Then they should not surprised that engineers are willing to accept a better offer. As for "for now" bit—they should not forget that this is ongoing thing.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#139

Post by blurrypepe »

freedom2099 wrote: post #105
redanddead wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is life there?

Very nice! Plenty of people from all around the world (many international IT companies have offices in the area)… my group of friends have more than 7 different nationalities in it! It’s quieter during the winter and very lively during summer. Weather is amazing all year round… there are 16 degrees outside right now. If you feel the need for a something that only a bigger city can offer Canne is 10 minutes away by ca…

Wow! I'm an IT student currently living in Antibes, working in Cannes and with quite a few friends from all over the world working in Sophia. It's a pleasure to see people from France on HN!

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#140

Post by tclancy »

koonsolo wrote: post #133
quietbritishjim wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that engineer will likely be offered a 3-5% raise. Although I agree with your overall point, I disagree with this line of reasoning. I think the pay offered to an engineer already takes into account that they will understand the tech stack after six…

I agree with the both of you, so here is my simple version: Companies rely on the fact that you stay a couple of years at least. So if you want to make good deal, you need to switch jobs more often.

A year to learn, a year to earn, a year to yearn.
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