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Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

sloanreview.mit.edu

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Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#31

Post by beloch »

andrewflnr wrote: post #6

I've always guessed this was a major factor, though I still think too-low pay is a factor in a lot of cases, especially industries where pay tends to be anchored to minimum wage. However: (a) This is public social media data, I guess? That seems like a noisy channel. (b) Some of their suggestions are really dumb, and all miss the point in my view. If my boss is an ass, sponsoring a social event and expecting that to…

The data presented in the article actually presents some pretty specific problems with management that don't boil down to managers needing to be "better people".

For example, employees want predictable schedules. The sectors with highest turnover mostly seem to be the kind that either embrace crunch culture or have seasonal demand. e.g. Retail workers are expected to put in more time during the holidays, when most would prefer to work less.

If management sets unrealistic deadlines, causing crunches, or fails to appropriately staff up to meet seasonal demand, employees face unwanted overtime and are more likely to resign.

Passing the buck onto employees for poor planning is bad management. Plain and simple. "Good people" often do this and are, consequentially, bad managers.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#32

Post by selfhifive »

skrebbel wrote: post #10
foolfoolz wrote: post #7

> Our analysis found that the leading elements contributing to toxic cultures include failure to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion; workers feeling disrespected; and unethical behavior I don’t really believe these reasons or at least they don’t match what i’ve seen. I can only speak for FAANG: I think this is more compensation based than anything else. In an effort to level the playing field FAANGS establish l…

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

A job can be fun and fulfilling and better paying.

Most former FAANG employees do seem to like working in up and coming startups better with more control over the company vision.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#33

Post by barrenko »

csa wrote: post #8
andrewflnr wrote: post #6

I've always guessed this was a major factor, though I still think too-low pay is a factor in a lot of cases, especially industries where pay tends to be anchored to minimum wage. However: (a) This is public social media data, I guess? That seems like a noisy channel. (b) Some of their suggestions are really dumb, and all miss the point in my view. If my boss is an ass, sponsoring a social event and expecting that to…

> The real solution theoretically doesn't have to cost any money: managers just have to be better people. For such famously bottom-line-driven organizations as large companies, it's funny how that zero-cost solution is so unlikely to actually happen. Actually changing management culture at a large organization is very expensive if it’s even possible. Very far from a zero-cost solution. I mean, it would be great if th…

Culture is incredibly sticky. If you're a startup with let's say 5 people, getting more people is like pouring cement on culture. It cannot be changed. The buck stops with the CEO.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#34

Post by Areading314 »

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that engineer will likely be offered a 3-5% raise. An engineer with 3+ years might be worth 50%+ because they have developed the specific skills relevant to the job AND know the idiosyncacies about org politics and the nitty gritty parts of the codebase. Yet they will still only get a 10-15% raise. So that engineer moves on and accepts a 40% raise elsewhere. And thus we see the constant churn of highly talented engineers which is a huge drain on productivity for all involved.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#35

Post by mschuster91 »

What was the old saying? People don't flee jobs, they flee bad managers?

You can run a fast-food franchise, a pub, a hotel or any other front-line enterprise with skill and enjoy extremely loyal employees (at the cost of your profit), or you can run it like a hell on earth by extracting all profit you reasonably can.

For a long time, the latter was the standard model across the hospitality sector, especially as unionization and other forms of worker self-organization were never really present - now with covid haven thoroughly shaken everything up, employers are (finally) forced to up their offers. For a lot of them though, it might be way too late - good riddance.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#36

Post by shawabawa3 »

secretsatan wrote: post #24
pcthrowaway wrote: post #19

> "This finding is consistent with a study of 28 Gap stores, in which employees at randomly-assigned locations received their work schedules two weeks in advance, and their managers were barred from canceling their shifts at the last minute. Employees in the control stores were subject to the usual scheduling practices." I don't even know what to say to this. The idea that big corp is intentionally fucking with their…

Isn’t the experiment to make a big corp not fuck with employees as opposed to their usual practices?

I think they underestimated how bad things are that they thought 2 weeks notice for shift schedules had to be worse

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#37

Post by mschuster91 »

99_00 wrote: post #23

I think the 'Great Resignation' is fake news. When COVID hit people felt insecure so they stayed on jobs they would have otherwise quit. Look at any graph of resignations or quits, they dipped. We are seeing the pent up desire to quit hit the market. However, pent up desire to quit doesn't make as interesting a story. Writers and researchers can use the 'Great Resignation' narrative promote any agenda or attack any w…

> Look at any graph of resignations or quits, they dipped.

The data there may be misrepresentative, as your local burger flipper or gas station is not likely to report people quitting jobs anywhere, and people moving off of businesses that were closed by lockdowns weren't reported consistently either.

The ones hit hardest by the "great resignations" are these small-scale employers, who have barely survived two years worth of lockdowns and had to fight for both customers and employees with big-brand stores and franchise operations before that.

For better or worse, the pandemic and its aftereffects will thoroughly disrupt local economies.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#38

Post by greatpostman »

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

I think the theory is that in aggregate they save money since most people are too lazy to jump

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#39

Post by Hokusai »

freedom2099 wrote: post #25
skrebbel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

I am with you on this one! I really don’t get it… I love in France (French riviera) and my salary despite being very good for the region is very far from the hundreds of thousands of FAANG companies in the US… and yet I more than once turned down offers from FAANGs because no amount of money can bet all the other benefits I get… 35h work week (no extra Hours), very relaxed corporate environment, 35 days of vacation a…

> I love in France

Freudian slip.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#40

Post by echelon »

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

Speaking as the Devil's advocate, organizations want headcount to be fungible.

If hiring and churn were huge issues for most companies, they would actively combat it. Instead, they've all mostly settled into the practice you see. Engineers typically do a 1-2 year tour of duty, vest, then bounce onto greener pastures. Steady state flux. In some senses, new talent also bring in new ideas and combat skeptical dispositions and organizational ossification.

Engineering salaries are without a doubt one of the biggest expenses for organizations to deal with. Companies love that they can now hire remotely and pay adjusted cost of living. They'll hire as many workers in middle America as they can, and once enough of the workforce is concentrated outside of expensive cities, you'll see them stop hiring in SF and NY entirely.

But it won't stop there. Startup capital is already beginning to shift to new opportunities in burgeoning emerging markets. Employment will eventually head there too, whether it's chasing after the new capital or simply finding more talent at better market prices. Covid and WFH opened up a world of possibility for talent sourcing and cost reduction. America doesn't have a monopoly on good engineers, just the expensive ones.

I wouldn't be surprised that if in ten years, our salaries begin to dip below six figures. Inflation adjustments notwithstanding.

Make your money now while the iron is still hot.

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