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Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

sloanreview.mit.edu

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Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#41

Post by mbit8 »

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

Not to mention that many companies don't even offer raises, at least nothing of much worth.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#42

Post by swift532 »

freedom2099 wrote: post #25
skrebbel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

I am with you on this one! I really don’t get it… I love in France (French riviera) and my salary despite being very good for the region is very far from the hundreds of thousands of FAANG companies in the US… and yet I more than once turned down offers from FAANGs because no amount of money can bet all the other benefits I get… 35h work week (no extra Hours), very relaxed corporate environment, 35 days of vacation a…

Sorry if I assume too much, but I think you'd be thinking quite differently if you had to consider buying your first home on the French riviera now, on something like a 60.000-100.000 euro pre-tax salary.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#43

Post by unklefolk »

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

This is probably true for many other industries. Organisation experience / knowledge is very important in being effective in a role. When looking at productivity, organisations tend to overpay new starters (a new starter is often a net loss, particular in a skill based role) and underpay those who've been with the organisation for several years. Of course, people have to live, so you can't pay a new starter next to nothing with the promise of huge increases after 6 months.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#44

Post by pjc50 »

beloch wrote: post #31
andrewflnr wrote: post #6

I've always guessed this was a major factor, though I still think too-low pay is a factor in a lot of cases, especially industries where pay tends to be anchored to minimum wage. However: (a) This is public social media data, I guess? That seems like a noisy channel. (b) Some of their suggestions are really dumb, and all miss the point in my view. If my boss is an ass, sponsoring a social event and expecting that to…

The data presented in the article actually presents some pretty specific problems with management that don't boil down to managers needing to be "better people". For example, employees want predictable schedules. The sectors with highest turnover mostly seem to be the kind that either embrace crunch culture or have seasonal demand. e.g. Retail workers are expected to put in more time during the holidays, when most wo…

Unpredictable schedules is nothing to do with holiday work; that can be planned and agreed in advance, with suitable pay, and people will happily do it. What really grinds people's gears is "on demand / zero hours" scheduling: you have to ring up an hour before your shift starts to check whether it's actually going to start or been moved again.

With predictable scheduling you can work two part-time jobs. With zero-hour contracts, you can't (because they may whimsically decide to schedule conflicting shifts for you). And you can't budget because you have no idea how much you're going to be paid.

Retail and hospitality were infested with this nonsense, and as soon as workers have other options they quit it.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#45

Post by YetAnotherNick »

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

I think the real issue is that changing the companies always gave bigger raise in pay than staying in the company for most of the folks. Most were not changing jobs due to multiple factors like relations, not having to change house, comfort, good office, free food etc. Now this all factors have reduced a lot that staying in current company is looking even worse option. So till employers are able to retain using other means like interesting work or that employers are able to give 20-30% raise each year(which is pretty hard) the time people stay in the same company will low.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#46

Post by pjc50 »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #19

> "This finding is consistent with a study of 28 Gap stores, in which employees at randomly-assigned locations received their work schedules two weeks in advance, and their managers were barred from canceling their shifts at the last minute. Employees in the control stores were subject to the usual scheduling practices." I don't even know what to say to this. The idea that big corp is intentionally fucking with their…

It's the local managers who intentionally mess with the employees, whether it's out of malice or desire to hit corporate profitability targets. And yes zero-hour scheduling and last-minute shift cancellation probably ought to be illegal.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#47

Post by FpUser »

echelon wrote: post #40
Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

Speaking as the Devil's advocate, organizations want headcount to be fungible. If hiring and churn were huge issues for most companies, they would actively combat it. Instead, they've all mostly settled into the practice you see. Engineers typically do a 1-2 year tour of duty, vest, then bounce onto greener pastures. Steady state flux. In some senses, new talent also bring in new ideas and combat skeptical dispositio…

>"Covid and WFH opened up a world of possibility for talent sourcing and cost reduction"

I was doing remote work and hiring remote subcontractors for 20 years already. No need for COVID ;)

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#48

Post by pjc50 »

99_00 wrote: post #23

I think the 'Great Resignation' is fake news. When COVID hit people felt insecure so they stayed on jobs they would have otherwise quit. Look at any graph of resignations or quits, they dipped. We are seeing the pent up desire to quit hit the market. However, pent up desire to quit doesn't make as interesting a story. Writers and researchers can use the 'Great Resignation' narrative promote any agenda or attack any w…

> Look at any graph of resignations or quits

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/talent-acqu...

That looks like an increase to me? There was a dip for the first couple of months but the ongoing event has caused a more-than-substitution level of quits.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#49

Post by cjrp »

jahewson wrote: post #17
skrebbel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

The cost of living is just so crazy high here though, $2.5m for a starter home in SV. More in some parts. You’d need a household income of 500k/yr to even qualify for that mortgage.

What's considered a starter home? In England (well, the south-east of England), lots of people get started in a 1 or 2-bed flat (~60m²), maybe move up to a small terraced or semi-detached when they have kids.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#50

Post by PicassoCTs »

mbit8 wrote: post #41
Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

Not to mention that many companies don't even offer raises, at least nothing of much worth.

6 years, got a raise once, when almost whole crew quit..
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