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I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

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Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#311

Post by pjmlp »

pattusk wrote: post #40
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

I do not disagree with your take, but I think you may only be speaking for a subset of engineers that are already fairly well compensated. The article likewise seems to discard the importance of money in favor of three other more immaterial factors, but I do not think this is representative of the situation of the global job market right now. I also think such a perspective can not fully explain the difficulties that…

> Over in Europe and East Asia, $50 to $60k salaries are the norm

Yes, and we have plenty of nice stuff that goes along with it

Healthcare, 30 paid holidays, unions, paid overtime, weekends and calls off work come extra (it is 40h week period, want more pay for it), retirement, flex time, ...

Like the OP, my expenses are more than covered, getting more isn't worth the hassle to change.

Ah, and in some countries having too many companies on the CV isn't well seen, it appears the candidate isn't able to fit-in anywhere.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#313

Post by kelnos »

refurb wrote: post #310
pb7 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“All the time” here means it has happened in the past, it happens today, and it will probably continue happening. It may not be a high percentage of parents but it exists. Believe it or not, Reddit is made up of human beings just like you.

"All the time" infers high frequency. And sure, Reddit is full of humans, but it's nowhere close to a representative sample of the populations. That should be clear as soon as you start reading.

I usually read (and intend, when I write) "all the time" as "more than you'd expect", not necessarily as "with high frequency".

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#314

Post by shostack »

winrid wrote: post #133

Loosing out on 10k a year doesn't sound bad until you're 100k/yr behind where you could be.

Everything is relative. I know many people who would trade $100k over 10yrs (less if we assume it's overrated) to watch their kids grow up and spend time with them.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#315

Post by jmchuster »

redisman wrote: post #142
didip wrote: post #87

The article is concise but missing a lot of real-life examples: * The highest paying software companies employ LeetCode style interview. That is off-putting to a lot of people even though the money would be super sweet to have. * Some wannabe startups also employ LeetCode style interview even though they don't pay anywhere near FAANG/Unicorns. * You know what's worst than LeetCode style interview? LeetCode style inte…

> The highest paying software companies employ LeetCode style interview Ugh yeah it’s ridiculous. We can’t hire anyone! Have you considered not putting candidates through months of studying to memorize a bunch of algorithm tricks and then grilling them for 5-10 hours total on those? No - that’s not what the cargo cult manual says.

I dunno if it's that ridiculous. Having to spend a couple of months studying to get a 100k raise, seems not a completely unfair trade.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#317

Post by pjmlp »

lhorie wrote: post #64
pattusk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not disagree with your take, but I think you may only be speaking for a subset of engineers that are already fairly well compensated. The article likewise seems to discard the importance of money in favor of three other more immaterial factors, but I do not think this is representative of the situation of the global job market right now. I also think such a perspective can not fully explain the difficulties that…

I would posit that the OP underestimates the impact of his second point: remote-first in a covid world opened up a large swath of opportunities to get very large total compensation bumps everywhere. I'm part of a slack group comprised of ex-employees of a company I used to work at and some folks there expressed that it is entirely feasible to land jobs today that pay a full 100-200k over their current or previous com…

It also opened the door to get more offshoring, why pay SV salaries when they can pay Infosys rates (pick your favourite offshoring company name).

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#318

Post by kelnos »

robotresearcher wrote: post #264
giantg2 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I did. Your comment indicates that you don't understand ceiling. The article is overly simplistic in regards to things like cost of living, inflation, and returns on the savings. Do you really think you can save 90% of your income and retire after 3 years? This is terrible financial advice and completely ignores functions and changes in spending due to life events. Not to mention, I don't believe that function is…

> Do you really think you can save 90% of your income and retire after 3 years? You certainly can if you make 5 million a year! Which means that absolute income is absolutely relevant.

Hell, in many places you can retire under those conditions if you "only" make $500k a year. The trick is to move to a much lower cost-of-living area after you retire, often abroad. If that kind of thing floats your boat, anyway.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#319

Post by emodendroket »

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

> I imagine I'd be singing a slightly different song if I had kids

I don't know... as soon as you do the stability of an existing job seems more compelling.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#320

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

anonporridge wrote: post #75
giantg2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s" Maybe a small subset. The median dev salary is $110k. So no, only a very small number are able to retire in their 30s.

The absolute value of your salary doesn't tell you anything about how long it takes to get to retirement (or more accurately, financial independence). That's exclusively a function of your spending and saving rates. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-si...

Forecasting your spending rate far enough into the future, however, is a very tricky problem if you're trying to retire at 30, especially if you're living through turbulent times.

I'd rather work 3 days a week until I'm dead then let my skills start deteriorating now and live the next 60 years in fear that my fixed income won't be able to sustain me.

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