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I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

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Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#61

Post by anonporridge »

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

Also, I feel like engineers are much more likely to be attracted the FIRE mentality and tend to have the incomes and low spending habits that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s.

I'm personally in that boat, and frankly, I'm a little bored but not bored enough to go back to work as an SE full time. If companies offered more part time work and highly flexible work, it might be enough to drag me back in.

Even large six figure salaries just aren't enough money for the soul crushing reality of renting out my brain full time to solving someone else's problems now that I have enough.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#62

Post by schmookeeg »

Waterluvian wrote: post #36
thedougd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once told recruiters did this because they didn't want you reading the email and heading straight to the company's site to apply. If you applied directly, the recruiter was out of the loop and thus out of a commission. I suppose I _might_ be able to negotiate that commission in the form of a larger signing bonus. I doubt that's a winning strategy. It seems like it would usually be in the best interest of the po…

Agreed. Why would I skip the recruiter and apply directly unless the recruiter is a non-helpful middleman? I’d love to have a direct contact to negotiate the whole process.

If you have ever met a recruiter who was NOT an unhelpful middleman, I'd love to meet them. My spam folder is filled daily with dozens of body-shop spammers with 50-point scrabble names offering me jobs I don't do in places I won't live for money I haven't made since I quit my newspaper route in college. It's maddening and has been very consistent throughout my career.

I've toyed with the idea of finding a for-fee recruiter on my own to spam these companies and their listings and pre-negotiate out something really interesting for myself. But that's more like a sports agent. Anyone know a tech sports agency to Jerry Maguire myself with? :D

(I know, first world diva problems, sigh... it's still grating though)

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#63

Post by giantg2 »

There is a lot of truth here. I. Just tired of the corporate BS and not having a real career. It doesn't have to be cool, just useful or meaningful. I don't make over $100k as-is, so low 6 figures sounds great. I don't need to work with geniuses, just people I can learn from.

I hate my job, and would likely hate any tech job at this point. Shitty companies are having trouble hiring because people know they're shitty. People examine they're being used.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#64

Post by lhorie »

pattusk wrote: post #40
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

I do not disagree with your take, but I think you may only be speaking for a subset of engineers that are already fairly well compensated. The article likewise seems to discard the importance of money in favor of three other more immaterial factors, but I do not think this is representative of the situation of the global job market right now. I also think such a perspective can not fully explain the difficulties that…

I would posit that the OP underestimates the impact of his second point: remote-first in a covid world opened up a large swath of opportunities to get very large total compensation bumps everywhere. I'm part of a slack group comprised of ex-employees of a company I used to work at and some folks there expressed that it is entirely feasible to land jobs today that pay a full 100-200k over their current or previous compensation, thanks to big tech companies expanding engineering operations outside of Silicon Valley.

Considering that each of these tech companies are trying to hire in the order of hundreds of engineers, and willing to accommodate remote work from locations that they previously did not consider, is it really a surprise that other companies with less competitive compensation packages are struggling to find talent?

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#65

Post by digianarchist »

mrkentutbabi wrote: post #17

That’s weird. I like money more than “work for cool stuff”. Cool stuff don’t pay bills. Heh, maybe this is why I am an average engineer.

It's funny that most of my high school buddies grind their jobs for a paycheck, but as a software developer I'm supposed to "find a company I'm passionate about" so work "has meaning".

Hard lessons I learned over the last 24 months:

- Titles don't matter. Promotions provide minimal pay increases. It's better to focus on finding another job.

- Job difficulty doesn't scale linearly with salary. I'm working roughly the same as I did in jobs where I earned 1/3 the salary I get now.

- RSUs are the way to get crazy money. I completely disregarded them early in my career.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#66

Post by giantg2 »

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

If you're lucky... "There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore"

Fixed it for you

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#67

Post by oh_sigh »

symlinkk wrote: post #48
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

You must live in the sticks or something. I make well over 6 figures and can’t afford a house.

Sure you can. You just can't afford a house in 94027.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#69

Post by MattGaiser »

synergy20 wrote: post #37

It's a tight labor market now, not just engineer positions. as far as engineer or IT jobs are concerned, I have been wondering for years: is the root cause that we can't produce enough STEM graduates? starting from k-12. I have no strong evidence, but my current company could not even find candidates(we're doing chip design), in the past it would have to work with H1B workers but covid19 made that a slow and impossib…

STEM doesn't retain people, particularly women (only one woman I know that I graduated with is still a tech worker) and plenty of others got tired of taking orders from project managers and decided to become them or go found something.

A lot of people think that as software engineers they get to develop the product. In practice, I have mostly been an ticket processing Oompa Loompa. You can get some input, but that requires arguing with people you would often rather not argue with. That drives a lot of people away.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#70

Post by giantg2 »

anonporridge wrote: post #61
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

Also, I feel like engineers are much more likely to be attracted the FIRE mentality and tend to have the incomes and low spending habits that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s. I'm personally in that boat, and frankly, I'm a little bored but not bored enough to go back to work as an SE full time. If companies offered more part time work and highly flexible work, it might be enough to drag me back in. Even…

"that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s"

Maybe a small subset. The median dev salary is $110k. So no, only a very small number are able to retire in their 30s.

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