I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now • Hacker News Board

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#261

Post by zem » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:01 AM UTC

dvtrn wrote: post #38

thedougd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once told recruiters did this because they didn't want you reading the email and heading straight to the company's site to apply. If you applied directly, the recruiter was out of the loop and thus out of a commission. I suppose I _might_ be able to negotiate that commission in the form of a larger signing bonus. I doubt that's a winning strategy. It seems like it would usually be in the best interest of the po…

I was once told recruiters did this because they didn't want you reading the email and heading straight to the company's site to apply. I've heard this a few times as well over my career, I wonder what-beyond missing out on that sweet contingency fee-recruiters have to lose by, as the article suggest: just being freaking transparent with candidates

other than the contingency fee, what do they have to gain? that's literally how recruiters make money!

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#262

Post by danielfrg » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:01 AM UTC

It's because they dont pay them enough. Pay more and you will get better engineers.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#263

Post by MisterBastahrd » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:01 AM UTC

I know why you can't in DFW: inflation has skyrocketed and home values and rents have risen 33% in 2 years but companies, including defense contractors and multinationals, are still trying to pay $70-90K for senior developers.

I get bombarded by recruiters all the freaking time, but I tell them straight up that I will not be offering any references except straight to an employer after an offer in hand (this kills off most of their interest) and that I would never entertain an offer unless it was a significant pay increase (which means it's gonna have to be an SV company doing the hiring).

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#264

Post by robotresearcher » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:02 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #105

anonporridge wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly didn't even skim the link I posted.

Yes I did. Your comment indicates that you don't understand ceiling. The article is overly simplistic in regards to things like cost of living, inflation, and returns on the savings. Do you really think you can save 90% of your income and retire after 3 years? This is terrible financial advice and completely ignores functions and changes in spending due to life events. Not to mention, I don't believe that function is…

> Do you really think you can save 90% of your income and retire after 3 years?

You certainly can if you make 5 million a year! Which means that absolute income is absolutely relevant.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#265

Post by SOMA_BOFH » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:05 AM UTC

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

>There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore

clearly you've never been poor.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#266

Post by ripper1138 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:05 AM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #203

symlinkk wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think people making $1M/yr browse this website

There was a guy yesterday that said he's doing four remote swe jobs right now at the same time. Takes roles that he's comfortable with and capable at, gets stuff done and nobody complains. Sounds like he's +1 million. Sort of like a 4x Tim Ferris program.

Link if you have it? I’m curious. I’m not surprised people are trying it. While I can definitely see it being possible to get the work done for a while, I can’t imagine how they could avoid meeting conflicts across 4 jobs.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#267

Post by hirako2000 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:06 AM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #215

giantg2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apparently check the right boxes. I just suck at life.

You are just one conversation away from changing it. Either with your current manager or your next one. Have no fear!

this. AI is such a hot market, with a phd you may double your comp in one move, or, absolutely get your current employer to give a significant raise every 6 months to keep you.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#268

Post by somebodythere » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:08 AM UTC

zuhayeer wrote: post #73

Money is actually a bigger deal than you think. A lot of people are in effect doubling their salaries by switching jobs right now. Even rewinding to just 5 years ago, there were much fewer companies flush with cash. Now with the hyper-capitalization of so many up-and-coming startups, a lot more companies are now at the bidding table for the same pool of candidates. And even large incumbents have big plans to double i…

In a certain kind of environment, maybe cool tech and loyalty could have been the tiebreaker for engineers in the job market, but it's very difficult to stare a 100% raise with similar WLB in the face and not think about making a move.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#269

Post by ironman1478 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:10 AM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #257

> In spite of these truths, people flock to working for TSLA and CosmosY. I often wonder how many of the people working at cool places are doing cool stuff and how many are doing the same things as elsewhere. Does it help working in a place building autonomous cars, rockets if you’re not doing that, but doing the same web dev or door knob release software that you could do in a hedge fund, accountancy firm, or evil c…

Autonomous cars make everything difficult and therefore pretty fun, if difficulty is fun :). Let's talk about door knob release. Ok, so now that there isn't a person driving the car, how do you authenticate that the person at the door is who it should be? All of a sudden you've opened a whole can of worms with that one question. The answer to that problem is gonna be a lot more complex than an electronic lock on a house door.

Even web dev is interesting. lots of bespoke visualization and debugging tools had to be created from scratch because nothing on the market solved the problems that autonomous cars pose. Look at webviz created by cruise as an example.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#270

Post by allenu » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 6:10 AM UTC

To me, working from home during the pandemic has made my employer fungible. Having to commute to work used to mean that where my job was located mattered. Being physically located at the office meant more socializing with coworkers, so companies could offer perks, like free food, or social events. They could differentiate from other companies by offering these things or selling their "culture". None of that matters anymore.

Nowadays, work is just signing into my machine every morning and joining a Zoom meeting for standup. Interacting with coworkers is either via Zoom meetings or via Slack. I hardly need to interact with them apart from work-related matters. There isn't an opportunity to chat at the coffee machine, or grab lunch together, or get drinks after work. The work is now just the work that I do and not the people I work with or the building that I commute to.

What does this all mean for me? It means if I find the kind of work I do boring, or I don't think I'm paid well enough, I can just quit. I can judge companies I work for based on pay, type of work I do, likelihood of promotion (for more pay), and how many hours I need to put in. All the other things that could impact how much I love working for company X are gone. It's purely "what is the job doing for me?" now. I think that's playing a role in people wanting to quit. They're no longer tied to their jobs as much as they used to be. They're realizing if they don't like it, they can just leave.