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I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

cushychicken.github.io

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Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#181

Post by np1810 »

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

Your thinking is so resonating with mine too... Also I'd like to add...

> 3. Some degree of repeatability in work environment.

Instead of the above point, I am looking for...

A place where I make greater impact in a small company working along side ethical people who are not trying to exploit their customers/consumers, rather than a FAAMG where you're replaceable within a few days and follow no ethics just revenue in mind...

A place where managers are accommodating of suggestions just because I write code doesn't mean my ideas about the product/solution aren't worth listening to...

A place where you admire or atleast respect the CEO and the company's business tactics instead of my ex-company whose past CEO is now an "astronaut" just to play a marketing gimmick I guess... :p

Please connect with me if you consider your startup/company is one such place... ;)

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#182

Post by Der_Einzige »

ssalazar wrote: post #154
Der_Einzige wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internal recruiters as they currently are should not exist . That's the hiring managers job, including negotiation of pay. The only roles I've ever accepted were roles that involved a hiring manager reaching out directly to me. There's a reason for this, namely that the only recruiters worth a damn seem to be working in boutique firms and want to take a significant bite out of my future pay. Really, just avoid them i…

As a hiring manager I’ve worked with internal recruiters and a good one is invaluable. - the transactional part of setting up interview loops, coordinating schedules, etc is extremely tedious for a field of 3-5 serious candidates for a given role. Internal recruiter takes all of this away from a hiring manager who has other duties. - an internal recruiter can plow through LinkedIn to find solid candidates, identifyin…

That should be your job. Even the "tedious" parts are too important to be left to a non technical person. Time of day for scheduling interviews really does matter and the initial communication of scheduling this can tell you an enormous amount about the candidate.

Your job should also include lots of time on LinkedIn searching, as many HMs do today. Letting a recruiter do this for you will give you many more bad interviews (expensive) than you'd get otherwise.

But apparently "tedious work" is above a HM. Have fun being on conference calls all day, pretending that you and not the engineers are the ones who do the work. Worker self management needs to become more of a thing in this field in general if we can't trust HMs to take an active role in candidate selection. Companies that disvow managers and empower their employees produce far more excellent work (e.g. valve) even if they don't always do it on the schedule that execs want - so this would be a net positive for the industry.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#184

Post by anonporridge »

rr808 wrote: post #171
anonporridge wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute value of your salary doesn't tell you anything about how long it takes to get to retirement (or more accurately, financial independence). That's exclusively a function of your spending and saving rates. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-si...

> You can earn 5% investment returns after inflation during your saving years This is very unlikely long term. Right now treasuries are 5% less then inflation. Lots of FIRE people are going to get shafted.

S&P 500 returned ~25% this last year, and 110% over 5 years. That's excluding dividends.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#185

Post by jlund-molfese »

matthewfcarlson wrote: post #50
Waterluvian wrote: post #15

I’ve gotten 7 recruitment emails since Sunday and none of them have come close to sufficiently explaining what the company or job is for me to even consider responding. It’s bizarre how secretive they are. I imagine the recruiters are looking out for their own interests. Recruiters are in the way.

As a rule, I don’t trust any third party recruiters but that generally limits me to mid sized and up companies unless I actively seek them out. On the other hand, I get an email from Amazon recruitment nearly every day and I have zero desire to work the bozos.

I was also getting multiple Amazon recruiter emails per day until I actually called one recruiter who listed his phone number on the email up. He was willing to mark me as "Not Interested" or something like that in their candidate pool, and since then, I actually haven't had any more Amazon recruiter spam!

Might be worth a try if you like having a clean inbox.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#186

Post by throwawayboise »

acchow wrote: post #74
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

> There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore That's cuz your numbers are too small. Offer a 50% raise instead of a 20k raise and you will see different results. > Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise by shopping my resume around, but I don't need the money Plenty of stories on Blind of people shopping around and going from 150k TC to 350k TC, so I guess it really depends on your situa…

Nah, not for some. I've never made a six figure salary. I have quit jobs in the past that would be six-figure jobs in today's market. They demand too much time and become the central focus of your life and identity. That's not for me.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#187

Post by bcrosby95 »

throwawaybbqed wrote: post #139
giantg2 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apparently check the right boxes. I just suck at life.

Hey random Internet stranger. Don't feel terrible. I have a CS PhD, work in AI, have a fancy job title and decent resume ..yet, I am not making anywhere close to these crazy numbers. I painted myself into a bad corner and am somehow stuck. I work crazy hours to keep myself up to date so I can get myself unstuck. I think most engineers are not making 300K-500K .. it is a bit like social media .. you just hear about th…

Lottery tickets don't always pay off either.

I make... nowhere near 300k-500k. But I got decently lucky with a startup earlier in my career. And a bit later I got some hefty bonuses at another company.

But that hasn't really happened the last, say, 8 years. If I kept hitting that luck, I could have been around 500k/year average total comp. But I didn't and I'm not in the 300k+ club.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#188

Post by p1necone »

lolinder wrote: post #138
anonporridge wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does. If you have a high salary, you are probably living in a HCOL area. If you have a low salary for the same kind of work, then you are probably living in a LCOL area. The savings rates of these different individuals could be the same if the salary difference is proportional to the cost of living difference.

But 20% of $200k/yr is $40k/yr, while 20% of $100k/yr is $20k/yr. If you make twice as much while saving the same rate (i.e. cost of living goes up proportionally), you'll still end up saving twice as fast. Then move to a LCOL area, and you've got twice as much saved as the people who've lived there all their lives.

Yep - this is what a lot of people who suggest moving to a cheaper area as a solution for not being able to buy a house don't seem to think about.

Earning (made up numbers because I don't even live in the USA and I don't know what is reasonable) $100k and spending half of it on rent with no hope of buying a house is still better than earning $50k in an area with much cheaper housing.

Of course if you can score a remote job then you can have the best of both worlds, but that isn't always possible (and some companies seem to pay differently based on your COL now).

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#189

Post by tayo42 »

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

Agree with this idea. Every job promises that it will be the best. But after a few new job experiences, i know how bad it can get. Yeah i could get another 20-50k but the chance its going to be a nightmare again isn't worth the risk I think. Some managers, idk what they're thinking.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#190

Post by UncleOxidant »

didip wrote: post #87

The article is concise but missing a lot of real-life examples: * The highest paying software companies employ LeetCode style interview. That is off-putting to a lot of people even though the money would be super sweet to have. * Some wannabe startups also employ LeetCode style interview even though they don't pay anywhere near FAANG/Unicorns. * You know what's worst than LeetCode style interview? LeetCode style inte…

PIP culture? Google isn't giving me any answers here.
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