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I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

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Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#71

Post by dredmorbius »

ikiris wrote: post #52
Waterluvian wrote: post #15

I’ve gotten 7 recruitment emails since Sunday and none of them have come close to sufficiently explaining what the company or job is for me to even consider responding. It’s bizarre how secretive they are. I imagine the recruiters are looking out for their own interests. Recruiters are in the way.

I actually had a recuiter get angry at me recently for asking them for a basic job description and salary after their cold email had literally zero information other than the expectation I'd set up a call with them for a "very competitive role". Like, I just don't understand the audacity of most of them. Especially when almost invariably their competitive pay is 30% of what even base level fangs would offer. Its a co…

There are good recruiters. They're relatively rare.

They tend to stick around the industry for a while, not treat you like a mushroom (keep you in the dark, bury you in bullshit), and respond humanly to human requests.

You can safely block the one you're describing here, and we'll all be better if that's the standard response.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#72

Post by caymanjim »

symlinkk wrote: post #48
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

You must live in the sticks or something. I make well over 6 figures and can’t afford a house.

Maybe not today, if you haven't saved, but if you have no major debt now, there is noplace in the country where six figures won't allow you to buy a house once you have a downpayment. Mortgages are cheaper than rent, and you're presumably living somewhere right now.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#73

Post by zuhayeer »

Money is actually a bigger deal than you think. A lot of people are in effect doubling their salaries by switching jobs right now.

Even rewinding to just 5 years ago, there were much fewer companies flush with cash. Now with the hyper-capitalization of so many up-and-coming startups, a lot more companies are now at the bidding table for the same pool of candidates. And even large incumbents have big plans to double in headcount, effectively making the tech market talent side constrained (it always has been to a large degree, but even more pronounced now). So now companies are largely competing on compensation packages, because the ball is very much in the candidate's court. Amazon is starting to pay up to ~$400k in total compensation for an L5 mid-level engineer due to retention and hiring issues, and it's commonly known within tech that Amazon has traditionally lagged behind other large companies in compensation.

Job seekers have options and are very much in a position of leverage. That is why it is hard to hire right now, because everyone needs to hire, and your company probably isn't paying as competitively as others.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#74

Post by acchow »

hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

> There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore

That's cuz your numbers are too small. Offer a 50% raise instead of a 20k raise and you will see different results.

> Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise by shopping my resume around, but I don't need the money

Plenty of stories on Blind of people shopping around and going from 150k TC to 350k TC, so I guess it really depends on your situation.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#75

Post by anonporridge »

giantg2 wrote: post #70
anonporridge wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I feel like engineers are much more likely to be attracted the FIRE mentality and tend to have the incomes and low spending habits that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s. I'm personally in that boat, and frankly, I'm a little bored but not bored enough to go back to work as an SE full time. If companies offered more part time work and highly flexible work, it might be enough to drag me back in. Even…

"that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s" Maybe a small subset. The median dev salary is $110k. So no, only a very small number are able to retire in their 30s.

The absolute value of your salary doesn't tell you anything about how long it takes to get to retirement (or more accurately, financial independence). That's exclusively a function of your spending and saving rates. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-si...

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#76

Post by JimDabell »

srcreigh wrote: post #45
thedougd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once told recruiters did this because they didn't want you reading the email and heading straight to the company's site to apply. If you applied directly, the recruiter was out of the loop and thus out of a commission. I suppose I _might_ be able to negotiate that commission in the form of a larger signing bonus. I doubt that's a winning strategy. It seems like it would usually be in the best interest of the po…

> I suppose I _might_ be able to negotiate that commission Asking for a friend. Does anybody know what this commission is?

It varies based on where you are and the specifics of the deal. 15–30% of the first year‘s salary is normal in my experience.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#77

Post by giantg2 »

reikonomusha wrote: post #29

Purely anecdotal: In my experience as a hiring manager seeing trends change over the past 10 years, and selecting from the top 10% of candidates by some vague metric, it's primarily about "does it pay a lot" and secondarily "does it offer full-remote"? A lot of my friends, former colleagues, and candidates I've failed to hire end up going to either a FAANG or a very successful brand-name company (typically a SV compa…

I worked my normal week and 1/1-1/2. Now I'm officially on call for the next 7 days. I'm a midlevel with 10 years experience making under $100k. Fml

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#78

Post by acchow »

symlinkk wrote: post #48
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

You must live in the sticks or something. I make well over 6 figures and can’t afford a house.

"well over 6 figures". Does this mean "well over $100k" or "well over 999k"?

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#79

Post by giantg2 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #15

I’ve gotten 7 recruitment emails since Sunday and none of them have come close to sufficiently explaining what the company or job is for me to even consider responding. It’s bizarre how secretive they are. I imagine the recruiters are looking out for their own interests. Recruiters are in the way.

I simply refuse to work with 3rd party recruiters. I've had terrible experiences with them on the hiring side.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#80

Post by giantg2 »

JimDabell wrote: post #76
srcreigh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose I _might_ be able to negotiate that commission Asking for a friend. Does anybody know what this commission is?

It varies based on where you are and the specifics of the deal. 15–30% of the first year‘s salary is normal in my experience.

That's fucking disgusting.
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