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Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

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Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#61

Post by bloodyplonker22 »

f00zz wrote: post #58
lbrito wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Will the adaptation of this technology accelerate quality of life improvements? No. Things favelas need, in order of importance: 1. Jobs 2. Jobs 3. Jobs 4. Decent waste disposal 5. Decent public infrastructure - mass transit, daycare, health clinics, schools, etc. 6. Decent public services - police, postal office, social service workers, etc. 7. Etc 8. ... ... Infinite - VR gear with SV technobabble, MMORPG, play-to…

This country should have never normalized favelas. Just 50 years ago, places like Singapore and Seoul used to have slums that looked a lot like Brazilian favelas. But they invested in public housing and now look like sci-fi cities from the 25th century, while we were singing "quem mora no morro vive pertinho do ceu".

It's not as simple as the government fixing the problem by simply "investing in public housing". If it were that easy, Brazil would have already done it. Singapore and Seoul created educated populations and skilled jobs that were able to fit into growing industries like tech. The government can almost never just fix a problem by pouring money into it.

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#62

Post by aylmao »

pm90 wrote: post #21
mensetmanusman wrote: post #9

The image of someone sitting in a shack with VR gear on was thought provoking. Will the adaptation of this technology accelerate quality of life improvements, or will it be an opiate of the masses who would rather exist virtually than in the real world? Could this remove political desire for rapid change?

> Could this remove political desire for rapid change? No, since in the end you do have to return to the "real" world. Unless we can upload ourselves to the metaverse, a majority of humans will continue to want change in meatspace.

There is the argument though that you could "entertain" people away supporting a fair cause.

This both by means of propaganda through the content they consume, and by simply giving people something they can consider "good enough". Would people in micro-apartments be happy living in 32m^2 if they didn't have computers / TVs?

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#63

Post by lbrito »

vmception wrote: post #36
lbrito wrote: post #30

Such a waste on a great subject. There's this huge social and economic change in Brazil over the last 10 or so years where dozens of millions of people are acceding to the digital world; broadband (usually 4G) access to the internet is becoming part of their daily lives. This has huge consequences and tons of opportunity. Nubank is a quick example I can think of that knew how to take advantage of this movement and is…

but just because you don't respect game streamers doesn't mean that it doesn't have huge consequences and opportunities too. the people doing that have income and access to capital now whether a bank showed up or not, which is way better than any neobank fintech company can achieve. in the past, access to capital or electronic payments meant "bank the unbanked", now it doesn't mean that so there's no reason to cling…

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with whether I respect streamers or not.

Streamers produce entertainment. That's fine, I'm all for entertainment -- I pay for Netflix, for instance. But it is just entertainment. You can't have a strong economy based on producing entertainment alone. We need jobs that produce real-life value at some point.

In other words, kudos to the dude in the favela making money out of streaming, good for him. It's just _not_ something that can be scaled and applied to the millions of people living in favelas that need a good job (or any job really).

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#64

Post by wolverine876 »

ghaff wrote: post #51
wolverine876 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any time you hear those extremes about any place - e.g., lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense. People live there; they are biologically the same as you; they live, breathe and think, they not complete idiots. They aren't organizing, tolerating or sticking around a situation like that. (That said, I know nothing about favelas or what is wise or unwise to do in them.)

>lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense In general (although it used to be truer). That said, there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. No, you probably won't be shot. But being robbed isn't out of the question. What is almost certainly true is you're pretty safe most place…

> there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night.

We can always construct hypothetical situations that meet some criteria. I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city.

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#65

Post by lbrito »

f00zz wrote: post #58
lbrito wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Will the adaptation of this technology accelerate quality of life improvements? No. Things favelas need, in order of importance: 1. Jobs 2. Jobs 3. Jobs 4. Decent waste disposal 5. Decent public infrastructure - mass transit, daycare, health clinics, schools, etc. 6. Decent public services - police, postal office, social service workers, etc. 7. Etc 8. ... ... Infinite - VR gear with SV technobabble, MMORPG, play-to…

This country should have never normalized favelas. Just 50 years ago, places like Singapore and Seoul used to have slums that looked a lot like Brazilian favelas. But they invested in public housing and now look like sci-fi cities from the 25th century, while we were singing "quem mora no morro vive pertinho do ceu".

I understand your point and I see comparisons with South Korea a lot. Sibling commenter makes a good remark about education.

Another huge difference which can't be underestimated is the geopolitical importance of South Korea and the ensuing economic aid from the US.

Singapore also has uniquenesses (its location) that wouldn't translate well into other countries.

In no way does this diminish the merits of both those countries -- its great that they managed to develop so well, and they deserve applause for doing so. But I don't think we can easily compare either to Brazil.

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#66

Post by anonporridge »

smoe wrote: post #26
TameAntelope wrote: post #6

How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela? When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse. My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by t…

Don't know much about Rio, but what I have seen and heard elsewhere in Latin America over the years. Often times organized crimes substitutes an absent government and enforce their own set of law and order in the community. They can't afford to just rob the people blind as sometimes portrayed in media. They rely on a somewhat sybmiotic relationship with the "citizens" to act as messengers, human surveillance cameras,…

The interesting thing is that this is literally how all governments originally emerged.

The strongest local gang establishes a monopoly on violence in their territory. They then extract tribute (taxes) from the local population in various ways. If they get too greedy and extract too much, then eventually the plebs have little enough to lose to break their established order and fight the establishment gang. The most competent gangs find the equilibrium of taxation that is the maximum they can extract without suffocating production and innovation or creating an opposing revolution.

So, in locations where this has happened in modern states, it simply demonstrates that the "official" police and state have failed to manage their monopoly on violence properly, and are being actively out competed by a more effective organization that, if it continues to sustainably control its territory, will eventually become recognized as the new legitimate state.

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#67

Post by [deleted] »

bloodyplonker22 wrote: post #61
f00zz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This country should have never normalized favelas. Just 50 years ago, places like Singapore and Seoul used to have slums that looked a lot like Brazilian favelas. But they invested in public housing and now look like sci-fi cities from the 25th century, while we were singing "quem mora no morro vive pertinho do ceu".

It's not as simple as the government fixing the problem by simply "investing in public housing". If it were that easy, Brazil would have already done it. Singapore and Seoul created educated populations and skilled jobs that were able to fit into growing industries like tech. The government can almost never just fix a problem by pouring money into it.

[deleted]

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#68

Post by marcan_42 »

wolverine876 wrote: post #64
ghaff wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense In general (although it used to be truer). That said, there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. No, you probably won't be shot. But being robbed isn't out of the question. What is almost certainly true is you're pretty safe most place…

> there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. We can always construct hypothetical situations that meet some criteria. I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city.

> I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city.

It's pretty safe in Tokyo. Not every city requires you to be on the constant lookout for your own safety.

Perhaps you're used to cities with higher crime rates, and are projecting that onto every city.

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#69

Post by simplestats »

wolverine876 wrote: post #64
ghaff wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>lots of people say it about parts of American cities - it's nonsense In general (although it used to be truer). That said, there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. No, you probably won't be shot. But being robbed isn't out of the question. What is almost certainly true is you're pretty safe most place…

> there are many places in US cities where I'd pretty strongly recommend against looking out of place, wandering around like a clueless tourist, late at night. We can always construct hypothetical situations that meet some criteria. I wouldn't recommend that in any part of any city.

Where I live now, you can wander around at night no problem. A cop might get suspicious and hassle you is about the worst.

I have also lived in places where not only would I advise more-vulnerable people against going out at night, I wouldn't go wander around myself either.

But yes the odds of being a victim aren't leaping from zero to 100 percent between these nighborhoods. More like aceptably low to unacceptably high.

Re: Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

#70

Post by rightbyte »

speeder wrote: post #32
TameAntelope wrote: post #6

How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela? When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse. My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by t…

I am from Brazil and to be honest the government push for this is kinda silly. There are other problems to solve first. There was an event I participated about this, I was teaching about gamedev using opensource tools, a lot of people paid to go, the government then brought in a ton of people from the favelas as part of their "digital inclusion" program, although I was happy to teach them, later I heard many of them…

How could the congressman influence the recording permit process? What new car goes for 10k?

I believe you it is bad but that sounds like your friend is spreading a tall tale.

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