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Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

kendoui.com

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Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#81

Post by va_coder »

sasha-dv wrote: post #72
zedshaw wrote: post #32

If you take away how this looks, and start digging into the project from a beginner's perspective, this project is awful. I find this with most of the supposed "UI frameworks" out there for HTML. With a few exceptions, they mostly lack: 1. Good documentation that doesn't just define the framework, but teaches you how to use it and get stuff done with it. Code already defines what it is, your docs should tell me why i…

I agree with your points. Tutorial-style documentation is a way to go. The main problem this framework has isn't its reference-style documentation (if a framework looks good enough I'm willing to do some extra work figuring out how to use it). Kendo's real problem is its licence. Apart from seeing how "awesome" it is you can't do shit with it. Here's the licence: http://gd.is/qDdw

Thanks for that

snippet below:

1. Grant. Telerik hereby grants to you, and you accept, a non–exclusive, non–transferable license to install and use the Software for evaluation purposes only, solely as authorized below. ....

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#82

Post by toni »

pbreit wrote: post #40
WayneDB wrote: post #14

I apologize in advance if this opinion offends anyone, but every HTML UI kit that I've seen simply can't hold a candle to native kits such as WinForms, WPF or even Cocoa. I would really love a write-once browser based solution, but I just can't see that type of solution ever catching up to native tech. How long do we have to wait before the browser can catch up? Do you think it will ever happen? The closest thing tha…

Considering that Silverlight is a download, I would not place it in this category. Someone mentioned Sencha already. The other strong offering is Cappuccino.

280 Atlas[1] is another option.

[1] http://280atlas.com/

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#83

Post by crescentfresh »

redidas wrote: post #31
goodside wrote: post #25

Note: You cannnot use this library on your web site . The licensing agreement forbids you from redistributing the library, whether or not it's minified. It further states, "You are not allowed to integrate the Software into end products or use it for any commercial or productive purpose." So private deployment is out too. It's strictly for your own evaluation and amusement. http://www.kendoui.com/download/licenseagre…

After poking around on their website, I noticed that this library is being developed by Telerik ( http://www.telerik.com/ ), which is a pretty big vendor for .net libraries. The trouble is I don't think they have a library for MVC3-ish apps with a front-end focus. At my place of work, we are ditching the traditional asp.net development and porting our app to MVC3. In the switch our Telerik .net controls were no longe…

They've ported their controls to work under the .NET MVC umbrella: http://demos.telerik.com/aspnet-mvc

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#84

Post by bundyo »

goodside wrote: post #25

Note: You cannnot use this library on your web site . The licensing agreement forbids you from redistributing the library, whether or not it's minified. It further states, "You are not allowed to integrate the Software into end products or use it for any commercial or productive purpose." So private deployment is out too. It's strictly for your own evaluation and amusement. http://www.kendoui.com/download/licenseagre…

Regarding the license - we are using a "beta" license that should protect people from using beta quality software in production. We'll move to the dual-licensing scheme once we are out of beta. We also updated the FAQ accordingly.

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#85

Post by nadam »

roel_v wrote: post #79
nadam wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am working on a UI lib which is written in Javascript and completely painted on HTML5 canvas. I know, crazy idea... I got rid of the incompatibilities of the browsers, I got rid of DOM: I defined my own event system, component graph, etc... This will be someting like a traditional desktop component based UI, just in javascript, in the browser. Styling will be far more advanced than CSS: you can even inject a custom…

Why don't you just write a Canvas backend for an existing toolkit like gtk or qt? You'll never be able to implement all the details of a sufficiently wide range of controls on a one-man (or even 10) part time basis.

The biggest fun of the project was that I was completely free to design the system from the ground up (except the canvas drawing functions). Regarding the amount of work I have to be strategical. I try to concentrate on a relatively small core system: get the philosophy right, tune the performance as much as possible. The components which are 'ready' right now: Window, Button, ScrollBar, ScrollPanel, GridPanel, TextEditor, StaticDoc. (StaticDoc is a read-only RichText component, kind of the original HTML.) The other absolute necessary things needed in the near future: TabPanel, DataTable, CheckBox, ComboBox.

To go further I will certainly need outside help (either other programmers or funding or third party component creators). I cannot create a huge component lib myself. But 10 people can do lots of things I think.

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#86

Post by sagarm »

roel_v wrote: post #79
nadam wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am working on a UI lib which is written in Javascript and completely painted on HTML5 canvas. I know, crazy idea... I got rid of the incompatibilities of the browsers, I got rid of DOM: I defined my own event system, component graph, etc... This will be someting like a traditional desktop component based UI, just in javascript, in the browser. Styling will be far more advanced than CSS: you can even inject a custom…

Why don't you just write a Canvas backend for an existing toolkit like gtk or qt? You'll never be able to implement all the details of a sufficiently wide range of controls on a one-man (or even 10) part time basis.

Someone is already working on it:

http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2011/03/15/gtk-html-backend-upd...

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#87

Post by sunkencity »

goblin89 wrote: post #73
zedshaw wrote: post #32

If you take away how this looks, and start digging into the project from a beginner's perspective, this project is awful. I find this with most of the supposed "UI frameworks" out there for HTML. With a few exceptions, they mostly lack: 1. Good documentation that doesn't just define the framework, but teaches you how to use it and get stuff done with it. Code already defines what it is, your docs should tell me why i…

Good lineup. However, I think that #4 is only appropriate in beginner's guides—docs always should have some boring reference section with quick navigation. HTML5 boilerplate lacks that. Jokes get old fast. Perhaps some good examples should be mentioned… I think, SproutCore handles points 1-3 very well ( http://guides.sproutcore.com/ ), but lacks #5 a bit. Django's documentation seems to have most of these, too. (Thes…

Sproutcore fails on another point though with making too much "improvements" on version 2.x. Why would anyone consider using sproutcore 1.x if it's already deprecated, and version 2.x is far from ready, as well as the docs. The sproutcore demos doesn't even work. You gotta have working demoes. There's no excuse for that - try getting your boss to accept a framework with no working demoes.

If you don't manage to get a home run with version 1.x just stick with it and fix the damn bugs, instead of doing the big rewrite, with the promise that it'll eventually work. It'll just work if you stick with it and fix the last 10%.

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#88

Post by goodside »

bundyo wrote: post #84
goodside wrote: post #25

Note: You cannnot use this library on your web site . The licensing agreement forbids you from redistributing the library, whether or not it's minified. It further states, "You are not allowed to integrate the Software into end products or use it for any commercial or productive purpose." So private deployment is out too. It's strictly for your own evaluation and amusement. http://www.kendoui.com/download/licenseagre…

Regarding the license - we are using a "beta" license that should protect people from using beta quality software in production. We'll move to the dual-licensing scheme once we are out of beta. We also updated the FAQ accordingly.

Phew, thanks for looking out for us.

Re: Kendo UI - a framework for modern HTML UI

#89

Post by Tautologistics »

sasha-dv wrote: post #72
zedshaw wrote: post #32

If you take away how this looks, and start digging into the project from a beginner's perspective, this project is awful. I find this with most of the supposed "UI frameworks" out there for HTML. With a few exceptions, they mostly lack: 1. Good documentation that doesn't just define the framework, but teaches you how to use it and get stuff done with it. Code already defines what it is, your docs should tell me why i…

I agree with your points. Tutorial-style documentation is a way to go. The main problem this framework has isn't its reference-style documentation (if a framework looks good enough I'm willing to do some extra work figuring out how to use it). Kendo's real problem is its licence. Apart from seeing how "awesome" it is you can't do shit with it. Here's the licence: http://gd.is/qDdw

Read the FAQ, the beta version has a different license than the full release will:

Q: How is Kendo UI licensed? Is it open source?

Kendo UI is dual-licensed, Commercial and Open Source (GPLv3).

The Commercial license includes full source, professional support, access to the latest Kendo UI hotfix builds, and priority influence on the Kendo UI roadmap. During the Beta phase, the framework is licensed under a Beta license and no commercial license is available.

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