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Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

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Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#111
post #95
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air pressure is strongly correlated to temperature. Cooling the air after compression reduces pumping effort during storage, reheating it increases turbine head pressure during generation.

In other words: gas compression storage suffers from temperature losses. The compressed gas is hot, the heat dissipates from storage and that energy won't be coming back. But if you extract that heat during compression you can put in a separate storage, one that is much easier to insulate than the compression tanks, and "mix it back in" during recompression, avoiding a large part of those losses.

> In other words: gas compression storage suffers from temperature losses.

Yes, and you can also compress air further when it's cooled (this is why there is an intercooler on turbocharged cars, as an example), this means your density per volume of storage is higher at a given pressure.

The reality though is that this is likely less efficient than many other storage mechanisms. Additionally, this may require some sort of additional energy input for reheating if the heat storage is not capable of holding long enough to fully reheat the air on release to get the highest turbine efficiency.

Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#112
post #70

Can someone explain why this is better than just using pumps to pump water up from the reservoir and extract the energy with when the water returned back?

not a lot of places have enough terrain to create a lake, plus in some places there's already shortage of water so removing it from usage would be pretty bad

Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article in a woodworking magazine about how one Amish woodworking shop was built to avoid using electricity. The whole shop ran off a stationary diesel engine driving a shaft in a floor trench and belt drove the larger stationary machinery like band saws, table saws, planers, drill presses, joiners and so on. But what about hand tools? A large belt driven air compressor off the diesel engine handled a myria…

I thought the whole schtick of the Amish was that they don't allow themselves to become reliant on technology, electricity just being an example. I doubt that Amish guy knows how to rebuild that engine should it fail.

They don't believe in having technology in the home. Most Amish are perfectly willing to work with modern equipment for their shops and businesses. Go by an Amish milking shed anywhere in the country--as my dad would say 'they're lit up like a shit house in the fog'. Electric lights from one end to the other with modern milkers inside.

Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#115
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't correct. Deep mines are notoriously hot, because you're digging towards magma. Google says temps increase by 3° C for every 100m.

Naive question but couldn't our forerunners who otherwise succumbed to cold in harsher climates have exploited this fact to dig subterranean villages and towns? What's the element I'm missing as to why they didn't?

Pre-industrial holes may collapse long before you reach -100 meters. Even -5 meters is a challenge in certain places.

Also, digging (or rather drilling) in bedrock is hard without motorized equipment and good steel.

Also, supplying fresh air down there is a problem.

Also, preventing the mine from flooding is usually a huge problem.

Mining is hard and a lot of people lost their lives doing that. That said, if your only intent is to get a bit warmer, you may basically try a good cave. Caves tend to have temperatures above freezing for the whole year.

Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#116

In early 20th century in London there was an alternative hydraulic "power grid" with plants (aka pumps), storages and an underground distribution network of pipes. A building, for example, could connect to high pressure water mains and use it to power elevators. Electricity eventually won, but it's interesting to see an idea coming back. Zeppelins next! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Hydraulic_Power_Company

There also used to be "central turbines" whereby there was a central spinning rod that one could attach belts to in order to spin a thing to get work out of it...

called line and shaft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qt5tltnvF8

Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#117
post #5

This brings to mind the other post about the Amish that's on today's front page. I believe the Amish sometimes use compressed air as an alternative form of power.

I read an article in a woodworking magazine about how one Amish woodworking shop was built to avoid using electricity. The whole shop ran off a stationary diesel engine driving a shaft in a floor trench and belt drove the larger stationary machinery like band saws, table saws, planers, drill presses, joiners and so on. But what about hand tools? A large belt driven air compressor off the diesel engine handled a myria…

This is basically how most indistrial setups was before engines and motors became a commodity. You had water wheels as your main power source, from which other tools was driven via belts and gears.

Later the waterwheel was replaced by an electric motor or a fuel powered engine - but still built around just one source of power, with elaborate setups to drive different tools. With the added benefits you could build factories and workshops outside main water sources.

Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article in a woodworking magazine about how one Amish woodworking shop was built to avoid using electricity. The whole shop ran off a stationary diesel engine driving a shaft in a floor trench and belt drove the larger stationary machinery like band saws, table saws, planers, drill presses, joiners and so on. But what about hand tools? A large belt driven air compressor off the diesel engine handled a myria…

I thought the whole schtick of the Amish was that they don't allow themselves to become reliant on technology, electricity just being an example. I doubt that Amish guy knows how to rebuild that engine should it fail.

The Amish only allow technology that they think will improve their lives. Many have cell phones, but don't use Facebook for example. I'd also bet he could repair the engine if he needed to.

Re: Goldman Sachs invests $250M in compressed air energy storage

#120

Grid storage is going to be big business in the future, on the order of size of storage for electrical vehicles. (And these will certainly not be mutually exclusive markets! Vehicle to grid tech will become widespread, as is already seen in the new F150 Lightning truck). Lithium ion will dominate for the foreseeable future, as the industry has scaled to massive sizes and already, and has the advantage of being curren…

Isn't Afghanistan known to be sitting on top of ~1 trillion$ worth of lithium, and also Bolivia?
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