Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

telegraph.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 833 posts

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#261

Post by t-writescode »

larryflint wrote: post #254
vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

Yep. I'm a case in point. At the beginning of this thing i went along with the mainstream narrative like a good sheeple. Now that i've watched how a narrative can go from 'your a crazy person to believe there COULD have been a lab leak' to 'yahhh it was probably a lab leak the whole time'...my faith has probably been permenantly destroyed in main-stream sources of information. Which sucks because idealy i just want t…

The nail in the coffin for me was when they would make articles about “700 people fired from X company for not getting vaccine.” When that company has like 85k people (which they don’t mention in the article and you have to look up yourself, of course), and it’s like “so less than 1% of the employees refused the vaccine?”

Even when they tell the technical truth, it’s so full of deception to sell ads I just can’t.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#262

Post by donny2018 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #206
donny2018 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a conspiracy theory that this method is used by conspirators to effect a coverup by discrediting skeptics of the official narrative. This is actual public disinformation practice, not a "conspiracy theory".

Moon landing conspiracy theories are full of discredited nonsense. It is a conspiracy theory to claim that the source of the discredited nonsense is the people who faked the moon landing, because the moon landing wasn't faked so there were no such conspirators to do that. Distinguishing this from the other thing is the issue. They do it because it works.

Ah, now I get it.

I thought you were talking about cases when “conspiracy theorists” are actually right, but their positions get poisoned by attributing some ridiculous stuff to them, and/or by artificial influx of similar “conspiracy theories” that are easy to disprove, so that the original theory is dismissed by association. For example, in Russia they love to flood the information space with bullshit theories a lot to “dilute” the truth and to disorient the public so that you can’t distinguish between truth and conspiracy theories anymore.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#263

Post by korantu »

awb wrote: post #214
barbacoa wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple labs in Wuhan. Wuhan institute of virology is the main on people like to talk about but there was indeed another lab a block or two away from the wet market. I don't know if both were doing virology experiments. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Center_For_Disease_Con...

It’s a Level 2 facility, not studying bats or coronavirus. https://www.wsj.com/articles/head-of-who-team-investigating-... > “They also reported no storage nor laboratory activities on CoVs [coronaviruses] or other bat viruses preceding the outbreak.” > The lab is classified BSL-2, a safety level at which air ventilation controls aren’t particularly strict, as they are in more secure labs. At that level, lab workers…

In 2016, some of the scientists including Shi and the EcoHealth director, Peter Daszak, used the NIH funding to conduct experiments in Wuhan on live coronaviruses in a biosafety level 2 lab, according to published details of the work from [0]

They did do coronavirus experiments in level 2 facility.

[0] https://archive.is/KwZKn?

[edit] replaced link as FT makes it difficult to refer to them.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#264

Post by Jack000 »

Sparyjerry wrote: post #244
Jack000 wrote: post #158

This article is kind of self defeating - based on the article the scientists expressed uncertainty over the origins of covid, but the title is "Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab" which seems to prove their point exactly? I don't know if this is common knowledge but there's an equal and opposite theory in China that covid came from the us. I just did a search for "covid us" on Baidu and this is the third…

The story is more about how this was covered up which destroys any faith you had in our scientific leaders who are clearly making decisions base on their political goals, and not on the truth. It is the same way Dr. Fauci admitted to lying to the public about masks not working so that he could achieve his goal of having masks being saved for healthcare professionals. When your leaders are known to be lying to you, es…

I'd agree if there's actual science being suppressed, but it seems to me there is none, just a lot of speculation and finger pointing without evidence on all sides.

Despite the lack of solid evidence more than a quarter of Americans already believe in the lab leak theory. In this very article any private expression of uncertainty has been twisted to serve a political agenda. I would say that these scientists' concerns are well founded.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#265

Post by ngc248 »

senectus1 wrote: post #258
coolhand2120 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the lab leak was dismissed as a conspiracy theory as are many of the things that have now come to pass, e.g.: ineffective vaccines, side effects. Pair that with the disinformation coming from once trusted institutions, e.g.: 5 vs 10 day quarantine, sending health care workers to work while still positive. It's no wonder people are giving more credence to these fringe groups. The government has nob…

But don't you see the conflicting positions here... on one hand The Gov and bureaucracies in general have ham-fisted the response. This surprises no one really. we all know that Governments can be awful at these sorts of things. yet somehow they have masterminded the development and release of a contagious bio weapon and done it in damn near perfected secrecy? How can someone hold both those statements with equal wei…

The "Government" is not one monolithic being. They are composed of various people/orgs with varying capabilities. Some are incompetent and some are competent at the work they do.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#267

Post by oblio »

vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13624175

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#268

Post by lamontcg »

eloisius wrote: post #257
baq wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're approaching this with a western democratic frame of mind, yes. This is not suspicious behavior in China, as the GP said - it is standard operating procedure.

I don't expect it to be suspicious or odd _in China_. What I am saying is that internationally we should not just shrug it off as "aww, it just China, they're always so sneaky and secretive even when it's nothing!" We should treat the situation as if they are indeed hiding something important every time, because otherwise, constantly acting suspiciously about everything is an effective strategy for them conceal anyth…

It is being used as proof that they leaked it from a lab, when it is just how societies built like China behave. You can't infer anything from normal behavior.

It is similar to the way that Hussein's actions in blocking access to presidential palaces was considered to be highly suspicious and therefore proof that he was hiding his weapons program. Turns out he was just trying to save face domestically by standing up against the weapons inspectors over something that he considered symbolic and immaterial in order to not look like a total pushover (a desperate need of dictators). It had nothing to do with weapons programs at all.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#269

Post by HumanReadable »

ayngg wrote: post #256
vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

"Trust the science" hasn't made people more rational, it has made "science" more dogmatic. I wonder what governments and the media will latch onto once they have eroded the trust in science, because there aren't many other trustworthy institutions left.

I agree, but I still consider it a step up to what we had before. There's always been institutions whom people are told to trust. For a thousand years it was the church. I think for most people to trust credentialed scientists from government institutions is a vast step up, even if they have sorely disappointed during this pandemic.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#270

Post by underdeserver »

vasco wrote: post #241

You know this effect, when you've been reading the news for years, and finally your favorite source has a story about something you studied or worked on, and you realize how low quality or outright wrong it is? The spell is broken and you realize how little they know about anything they write. Once government officials and scientists gaslight us about what they think they should, how does one know they wouldn't for a…

Government officials are not one homogenous group, and neither are scientists.

Please remember that most people who belong to one of those groups truly want to get to truth and improve our knowledge and lives.

Post reply on HN