Is the madness ever going to end? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#71

Post by sebmellen » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:18 PM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #15

> and while we're add it I hole-hardedly agree, but allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies...

First a fall, in per portion to the RAM used by Electron, my C script uses basically none. These new programmers are just not four meal your with how to code properly. Should we create better education info structure for new developers, or just hall of cost everyone who codes in Electron? I'm leaning towards the ladder.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#72

Post by ramesh31 » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:18 PM UTC

Damogran6 wrote: post #26

prions wrote: post #18

It will end when people like the author drop their victim mentality and start putting their own ideas into practice. It seems that this person is content with yelling on the sidelines about how good and efficient things used to be. Meanwhile, the shitty tech is winning. According to this author, bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why? "The situation is really bad for…

Alternately, it becomes impossible, by analysis paralysis, to decide what stack to learn and build from. Which one is safe? Which one is secure? Which one has legs? Which ones do you dedicate your precious time to as a direction to keep earning a paycheck?

>Which ones do you dedicate your precious time to as a direction to keep earning a paycheck?

LAMP.

I'm pretty convinced my future grandchildren will be maintaining legacy LAMP systems.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#73

Post by walrus01 » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:19 PM UTC

> Why in the world has this idiotic trend of abstracting everything away by layers upon layers of complexity

have seen this described as a "software russian nesting doll turducken cluster fuck" by a particularly frustrated individual.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#74

Post by recursivedoubts » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:20 PM UTC

prions wrote: post #18

It will end when people like the author drop their victim mentality and start putting their own ideas into practice. It seems that this person is content with yelling on the sidelines about how good and efficient things used to be. Meanwhile, the shitty tech is winning. According to this author, bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why? "The situation is really bad for…

> The browsers native language is HTML. HTML is a markup language and if you feed HTML to the browser it will very quickly render the page with what you give it. But no. Let's not do that. Let's instead feed the browser with JSON and then have the build in JavaScript engine translate that into a pre-formatted output which then gets translated into HTML before it's served to the user.

I agree with you. I agree with the author. I put my own idea into practice:

https://htmx.org

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#75

Post by n8cpdx » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #55

root_axis wrote: post #23

The author is fighting a strawman. Rather than engage with the specific problems these solutions were built to solve they dismissively regard them as just flavor of the week trends purely for the sake of chasing newness. This is true of the entire post, but I'll tackle just one since it's emblematic of my issues with all the rest: The argument for Electron and React Native isn't "it's modern", it's "it's much cheaper…

I’m very critical when a company like Slack cannot find the time and resources to make native clients. I’m so #%^*ing tired of it taking three Mississippis to show a channel I click on. But on the whole, I don’t think the armchair critics truly appreciate how Electron reduces the cost by at least an order of magnitude. It’s a brilliant tool for shipping early and fast. My only criticism with these start-up use cases…

I can’t think of any reason not to use Slack exclusively as a website. I’ve been doing it for years now, and it’s a better experience IMO. For Teams, the only disadvantage is you can’t share your screen and video simultaneously when running as a tab; but I find the screen sharing experience to be better otherwise when running as a browser tab.

Also: all of these “shitty” Electron apps work just as well on Linux as they do everywhere else. That is a huge advantage. I’ve got a significant amount of software that is realistically only on Linux because of electron.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#76

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

prions wrote: post #18

It will end when people like the author drop their victim mentality and start putting their own ideas into practice. It seems that this person is content with yelling on the sidelines about how good and efficient things used to be. Meanwhile, the shitty tech is winning. According to this author, bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why? "The situation is really bad for…

[deleted]

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#77

Post by datavirtue » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

It's because the demand for warm bodies that sort of understand how to code is so extremely high that there is no room to discriminate sufficiently. We are all working with dressed up normies that have zero clue. It's not their fault however, and trust me, they are looking for the exit.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#78

Post by frostwarrior » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

prions wrote: post #18

It will end when people like the author drop their victim mentality and start putting their own ideas into practice. It seems that this person is content with yelling on the sidelines about how good and efficient things used to be. Meanwhile, the shitty tech is winning. According to this author, bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why? "The situation is really bad for…

Veterans then to gloss over the fact that most "evolution" in programming revolves around programmer experience, not around the use of resources.

The bad side is because passionate young people come in hordes and they will gladly program anything for a penny. For the company is cheaper to hire a team of those youngsters and let them make your program in every (ugly) way they can, rather than pay a fortune for a veteran programmer that takes their time to deal with code that manually handles memory.

The good side is that you no longer need a computer degree or 20+ years into programming to make something decent.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#79

Post by ninjaa » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:22 PM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #48

I'm a greybeard. I've been doing this since before HTML existed, and I've kept up with the changes as they occurred along the way. I'm not going to refute the author's points one by one. Everything being complained about exists for a reason. I agree that it's incredibly complex. It's overwhelming. That's why people specialize. An individual can still own an entire application and infrastructure, limit their technolog…

And then there's one sr front end dev who started doing $10 mn ARR with a web app and react-native apps for iOS and Android from a Next.js monorepo all by his lonesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lnbdRweJtA&t=432s

I really think the React-Native and Next.JS (and tRPC and Prisma and GQL) have hit a PHP-style tipping point where we are going to see a great new flowering of cross platform web and mobile apps (last seen in the Facebook / Wikipedia era 2007-2014 era and driven by MySQL + PHP + jQuery + Phonegap). I feel excited, the hype is finally real.

So yeah sometimes that mixed abstractions complexity works against you, I feel like every decade or so it converges into a stack you can really use to effectively GTD.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#80

Post by bsder » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 11:22 PM UTC

Well, if someone would just put in all the vast the work to make a good, cross-platform, multithreaded, graphics-card native, GUI toolkit for desktop, this would all go away.

Or, you can pack up an entire browser, a full Javascript runtime and interpreter, and use something that both programmers and users know that kinda, sorta works.

Sure, "worse is winning". But "better" hasn't even stepped up to the starting line.