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Is the madness ever going to end?

unixsheikh.com

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Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#21

This is why I get paid top dollar as a consultant ;) When a company's top engineers decide to rewrite their stack in JavaScript, I get to swoop in, take $10k and tell them their old PHP monolith was just fine. Long live idiots, for I'll always get paid

It's amazing how (much of) 'senior management' is actually just stopping / not letting people doing dumb things. Turns out it's pretty much a full-time job just stopping silly things and keeping entropy at bay.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#22
Agree but confused....

Asking a few questions in response would be meaningful:

Do you ever write scripts to solve routine tasks so you don't have to do them over and over again?

Of course you do. Most ( not all ) of these examples are attempting to abstract a problem. In some cases they do that well in other cases they don't.

Have you upgraded your OS in the last 20 years?

Again, of course you have. Each of those upgrades have some useful and some not so useful things.

Did you upgrade your vehicle to a Tesla?

I can't answer this one but the same applies here. If you want to state "well yes because it helps the environment." My response would be simply a large number of auto advancements over the last 20-30 years makes the vast majority of that a reality for you.

So no, you will not stop attempts at progress. Some will win and others will become Studebakers but this is the activity that drives innovation.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#23
The author is fighting a strawman. Rather than engage with the specific problems these solutions were built to solve they dismissively regard them as just flavor of the week trends purely for the sake of chasing newness. This is true of the entire post, but I'll tackle just one since it's emblematic of my issues with all the rest:

The argument for Electron and React Native isn't "it's modern", it's "it's much cheaper". Hiring experienced desktop application devs to build a quality native app for each platform is going to be expensive, hiring a few JS bootcampers to build one react UI that works on every platform is extremely cheap - shittier performance is the tradeoff to instantly have access to every platform. It's not a coincidence that Electron apps like e.g. Slack, Spotify, Discord are massively dominant players in their markets, I doubt you'd look the engineering leads of these companies in the face and tell them that you believe they put no thought into the tradeoffs of Electron and that they're just following trends.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#24
post #18

It will end when people like the author drop their victim mentality and start putting their own ideas into practice. It seems that this person is content with yelling on the sidelines about how good and efficient things used to be. Meanwhile, the shitty tech is winning. According to this author, bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why? "The situation is really bad for…

Dead on. Building efficient and elegant software is difficult. The author should actually give it a try some time.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#26
post #18

It will end when people like the author drop their victim mentality and start putting their own ideas into practice. It seems that this person is content with yelling on the sidelines about how good and efficient things used to be. Meanwhile, the shitty tech is winning. According to this author, bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why? "The situation is really bad for…

Alternately, it becomes impossible, by analysis paralysis, to decide what stack to learn and build from. Which one is safe? Which one is secure? Which one has legs?

Which ones do you dedicate your precious time to as a direction to keep earning a paycheck?

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#27
post #2

No it probably won't end. No you are not a dinosaur, but development has changed. Decades ago you could build an app from the ground up. This gave you a bunch of different layers to compose, and probably made the app overall simpler. Now most developers are given a box to create their feature in whether it's a Spring Bean, a React Component, or a serverless function, with an entire application stack under it. You cou…

That's a great perspective, but are those peeps writing the unused frameworks just wasting their time to solve a question nobody has asked? Take the D language, it's basically a poor man's Java, with a shoddy garbage collector and aspirations at being C/C++... Is that the work of heroes or the misguided?

Can't it be both? or none of the above? I don't know anything about D specifically, but effort spent here is likely to be valuable elsewhere. Either because of techniques learned, or approaches validated.

Even if D never catches on, folks will learn from what they've done. And the folks who did it, will likely be able to get jobs in the field. I doubt the effort is truly wasted.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#28
post #2

No it probably won't end. No you are not a dinosaur, but development has changed. Decades ago you could build an app from the ground up. This gave you a bunch of different layers to compose, and probably made the app overall simpler. Now most developers are given a box to create their feature in whether it's a Spring Bean, a React Component, or a serverless function, with an entire application stack under it. You cou…

That's a great perspective, but are those peeps writing the unused frameworks just wasting their time to solve a question nobody has asked? Take the D language, it's basically a poor man's Java, with a shoddy garbage collector and aspirations at being C/C++... Is that the work of heroes or the misguided?

Are they solving a question no one asked, or a question that already has an answer? If there is already a clear answer, then it's probably a waste of time. Your answer needs to be better, and that is rare. When your answer is better, then its a paradigm shift to some. To others the answer is no better, and then it's just the infinite reinvention.

It's even rarer to answer a question that no one has yet asked. Then you are a revolutionary.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#29
post #18

It will end when people like the author drop their victim mentality and start putting their own ideas into practice. It seems that this person is content with yelling on the sidelines about how good and efficient things used to be. Meanwhile, the shitty tech is winning. According to this author, bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why? "The situation is really bad for…

> bad code and bad tools and bad frameworks are reigning supreme over real engineering. Why?

Why? The (ultimately unsuccessful) quest for the silver bullet. Nobody wants programming, they want programs - so anything that promises to deliver programs faster looks like a holy grail. Inevitably, though, the promise boils down to a pre-packaged implementation of an existing approach that does something relatively specific, with some options for customization. If you want to step outside that customization, you not only have the assumptions baked into the new "silver bullet", you also have to understand all the nuances of the layers upon layers of other approaches (and all of their assumptions), to the point where it would be faster to just shed all the layers and do it yourself (but you can't because noooo, you're a dinosaur, you don't understand anything, it's the future, it's the modern way of doing things).

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#30
"They constantly crash..."

Putting aside the downsides and reasons not to use Electron, this statement is just false. They are not "constantly crashing." I currently use at least Figma, Insomnia, Slack, Spotify, and VS Code and these apps rarely crash, if ever.

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