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Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

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Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does every retired boomer living quite well off their 401K retirement plan represent a member of 'the investor class'? How many would be willing to accept a cutback in dividend payouts if it meant corporations would instead invest that money in rebuilding manufacturing in the United States?

The investor class being those that have significant political influence. I sure don't recall any large boomer political movements demanding more offshoring. In fact, a politician promising the exact opposite was quite popular. But because they reap some minor, incidental payoff from a policy they did not choose, you're going to claim that means they were in favor of it??

People want money, in my experience. Cut their money flow and they get upset. Any effort to rebuild manufacturing in the USA will require corporations - major blue-chip outfits that pension funds invest heavily in - to spend billions of dollars building new factories and hiring employees at wages a good deal higher than what it costs in mainland China, Indonesia, Mexico, etc. This will cut dividend payouts to pension funds. Boomers riding their 401Ks off into the cruise ship sunset will get upset about that I imagine.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#132
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intel shareholders can now vote to ensure Intel takes a stand against China, if they choose. But it seems those individuals do not want that. Too early to conclude this. These tensions present not only a reputational risk for Intel, but financial ones as well, particularly if tensions escalate. Managers might not care, but there is precedence for shareholders taking a longer view [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/20…

I think the shareholders SHOULD take a stand, at Intel, Disney and other companies. The point I was making was that the power is in their hands, not management.

> the power is in their hands, not management

Management absolutely has a say.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#133

> It apologised last month for the "trouble" it had caused, saying that its commitment to avoid supply chains from Xinjiang was an expression of compliance with U.S. law, rather than a statement of its position on the issue. So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? To what extent are Intel chips designed and manufactured in China? Presumably, they are…

Just yesterday someone commented on the google's union efforts with the following: > Imputing altruistic morals to profit-seeking entities and then continually being surprised and offended when companies act shady puts employees in a pointlessly weak position.[1] The discussion whether it's true or not is less important at this point than the fact that Governments is responsible for making sure that there are rules t…

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Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#135

> It apologised last month for the "trouble" it had caused, saying that its commitment to avoid supply chains from Xinjiang was an expression of compliance with U.S. law, rather than a statement of its position on the issue. So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? To what extent are Intel chips designed and manufactured in China? Presumably, they are…

> So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? It would be very important to have some movement to avoid and boycott products made with slave labour from prisions, including the hundreds of thousands of slave labour from US prisions. This would be an important movement to end remaining slavery.

[deleted]

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To what extent are Intel chips designed and manufactured in China? Presumably, they are primarily designed in the USA and manufactured in Taiwan. Intel has fabs all over the world, including many in the US and some in China[1]. Whenever people talk about chip manufacturing they seem to only think about high-end cutting edge processes, when in fact the majority of quantity of chips produced are at non-cutting edge f…

Is there any critical non interchangeable raw material that goes into Intel chips for which CCP has exclusive global control? Xinjiang has some silica mines [0] which may go into silicon production. Presumably, that is a critical material for Intel. Can it be sourced elsewhere? Is that the leverage the CCP has over Intel? [0] https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3139062/u...

Silica is not an issue. Intel executives getting kidnapped(err arrested for illegal blah blah), local managers disappearing, sudden "corruption" investigations etc.

There are 2 choices, clear out everything and everyone associated with Intel out of PRC or comply.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#137
post #123

> It apologised last month for the "trouble" it had caused, saying that its commitment to avoid supply chains from Xinjiang was an expression of compliance with U.S. law, rather than a statement of its position on the issue. So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? To what extent are Intel chips designed and manufactured in China? Presumably, they are…

So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? You read correctly. That is exactly their position. Not that they are fans of slave labour or of what is happening to the Uyghur people, per se. Just that in the scheme of things - as long the sales channels remain open and unimpeded - they consider it perfectly acceptable to do business in countries where genoc…

If slavery, segregation, religious prosecution, mass killings and forced sterilizations took place in the West at some point, does it make those things OK for the remainder of humanity’s history?

No one was perfect at all times from day 1, but we should try to hold our partners, and by implication ourselves, to higher standards now that we have agreed to put the aforementioned actions at the extreme left side of the bad-to-good scale.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#138

> It apologised last month for the "trouble" it had caused, saying that its commitment to avoid supply chains from Xinjiang was an expression of compliance with U.S. law, rather than a statement of its position on the issue. So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? To what extent are Intel chips designed and manufactured in China? Presumably, they are…

> So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? It would be very important to have some movement to avoid and boycott products made with slave labour from prisions, including the hundreds of thousands of slave labour from US prisions. This would be an important movement to end remaining slavery.

[deleted]

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#139
I don't know why people keep expressing surprise at things like this.

Contrary to what the U.S. Supreme Court would have you believe, corporations are not people and do not have morals or values. They are organizations that seek to maximize profit and grow.

Any values a corporation projects are merely reflections of whatever the dominant moral force is in a given time and place.

American corporations in the U.S. in 2022 project values of wokeness because the woke left is presently the dominant cultural force in the U.S. In 1950's America, the dominant cultural force was cultural conservatism and patriotism so naturally corporations projected conservative and patriotic values. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that a large corporation operating in China in 2022 will reflect the values of the CCP.

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but expecting a corporation to have meaningful morals in the same way a human does is like expecting your dog to do the dishes. Based on what they are, they're simply not capable of the task.

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