Live data from Hacker News

Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

nasdaq.com

71–80 of 414 posts

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#71
post #5

Say what you want about China, but their ability to weaponize capitalism and make multi-billion dollar companies cower and self-censor in ways they would never do for Western governments is remarkable. "When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will vie with each other for the rope contract".

And this happens when the Chinese economy is still smaller than the US along with their lack of mastery in certain state-of-the-art semiconductor and aerospace tech. When the Chinese economy and tech hopefully match the US, the pressure gonna be enormous. Can't wait to see that day, my newsfeed will be so exciting.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why would Intel not take a position against Xinjiang slave concentration camps if presumably most of the supply chain does not depend on it? Would it be that much "trouble"? Why would they? Corporations have two choices now. Bend the knee and stay in the good graces of a government that controls access to the largest consumer market in the world, or take a moral stance and win meaningless social brownie points. Ther…

CCP may arguably control the world's largest consumer market. That is debatable when considering the European Union as a single market or even India. Considering either consumption level or sheer number of consumers, it is not entirely clear that China is the world's largest consumer market. But, let's presume that it is. CCP simply does not allow genuine access to sell goods or services. There is a reason why Google…

It's still accessible to Intel and Microsoft. I don't think China is capable yet of producing equivalent goods.

On the other hand, what Google and Facebook did can be done just as well by others.

Actually, maybe China is indeed able to produce decent Intel-compatible processors. Not sure.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#73
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel shareholders can now vote to ensure Intel takes a stand against China, if they choose. But it seems those individuals do not want that. So Intel is doing what it is supposed to do -- operate in accordance with wishes of the shareholders.

Counterpoint: the human beings that run Intel are not "supposed to" do everything possible to make their shareholder more money, regardless of the cost. I accept that they're going to do that, but there's nothing forcing them to, there's just a general cultural acceptance of greed.

Management is very much supposed to do whatever the owners tell them to do. If they don’t like it, they can resign in protest.

Having said that, someone at Intel, owners or managers, are way off track here and in need of severe consequences. They picked the wrong side.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#74

> It apologised last month for the "trouble" it had caused, saying that its commitment to avoid supply chains from Xinjiang was an expression of compliance with U.S. law, rather than a statement of its position on the issue. So is the position of Intel that slave labour in concentration camps is an acceptable means of production? To what extent are Intel chips designed and manufactured in China? Presumably, they are…

One company, two truths.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#75
post #71
post #5

Say what you want about China, but their ability to weaponize capitalism and make multi-billion dollar companies cower and self-censor in ways they would never do for Western governments is remarkable. "When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will vie with each other for the rope contract".

And this happens when the Chinese economy is still smaller than the US along with their lack of mastery in certain state-of-the-art semiconductor and aerospace tech. When the Chinese economy and tech hopefully match the US, the pressure gonna be enormous. Can't wait to see that day, my newsfeed will be so exciting.

On that day, your newsfeed might be free of dissent.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#76
post #57
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese gov't adopted capitalism? I'm not sure I can believe that anyone believes that, much less agree with it. This is a very direct example of a communist government controlling the messaging of a company, which is antithetical to capitalism. As I understand it, this is happening because Chinese corporations are coerced by the communist regime such that Intel would lose business if they didn't follow the rules…

Yes, their party has communist in its name and socially they portray (Authoritarian!-)Communist ideals. But calling their economy communist is really not the whole truth.

It's closer to a highly regulated semi-free market like Singapore, many European countries etc.

China is interesting in that they seem to take a more data-orientated decision making process when it comes to determining areas where free-market like behaviors would increase efficiency while keeping strategic capabilities under public funding (despite the efficiency losses).

I think most other governments manage this balance poorly, in recent decades mostly tending to over-privatize things like utilities and infrastructure.

If China manages to continue on it's path of market regulation and paying attention to health of competition etc (it's recent work on giving the SAMR teeth) they are going to be in a very strong position in the coming decades while others play catchup after the privatisation overcorrection.

People seem to forget that free markets -require- strong regulation. The tending towards deregulation in US markets has lead to a serious degradation of market competitiveness and thus freedom.

My hope is the success of China will drive Western economies to do better so that we can say that democracy is at least as good as autocracy but preferably better. But to do that we need to stop throwing stones from glass houses and actually get down to the business of matching them.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#77
post #68

> The letter now reads that the company prohibits "any human trafficked or involuntary labour such as forced, debt bonded, prison, indentured, or slave labour throughout your extended supply chains." Designed by Intel in California™

> Designed by Intel in California™ Soon even that will be outsourced to China. It will be replaced by: Financed by Intel in California™ or Marketed by Intel in California™

Proofread on Zoom by employees that were initially hired in California

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#78
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel shareholders can now vote to ensure Intel takes a stand against China, if they choose. But it seems those individuals do not want that. So Intel is doing what it is supposed to do -- operate in accordance with wishes of the shareholders.

Counterpoint: the human beings that run Intel are not "supposed to" do everything possible to make their shareholder more money, regardless of the cost. I accept that they're going to do that, but there's nothing forcing them to, there's just a general cultural acceptance of greed.

No one is saying that. They do what the shareholders want because that's who they legally work for. Shareholders can say screw China, take a stand and they will. They can't unilaterally say screw the shareholders we're going in this direction.

A company is a group of people coming together for a purpose. Management can't destory the group in pursuit of their own values. A ship's captain can't risk the ship because of their own values.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#79
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel shareholders can now vote to ensure Intel takes a stand against China, if they choose. But it seems those individuals do not want that. So Intel is doing what it is supposed to do -- operate in accordance with wishes of the shareholders.

> Intel shareholders can now vote to ensure Intel takes a stand against China, if they choose. But it seems those individuals do not want that. Too early to conclude this. These tensions present not only a reputational risk for Intel, but financial ones as well, particularly if tensions escalate. Managers might not care, but there is precedence for shareholders taking a longer view [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/20…

I think the shareholders SHOULD take a stand, at Intel, Disney and other companies. The point I was making was that the power is in their hands, not management.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#80
post #57
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese gov't adopted capitalism? I'm not sure I can believe that anyone believes that, much less agree with it. This is a very direct example of a communist government controlling the messaging of a company, which is antithetical to capitalism. As I understand it, this is happening because Chinese corporations are coerced by the communist regime such that Intel would lose business if they didn't follow the rules…

Yes, their party has communist in its name and socially they portray (Authoritarian!-)Communist ideals. But calling their economy communist is really not the whole truth.

Which parts of the Chinese economy are not subject to a complete hostile takeover from their government, including but not limited to disappearing the companies leaders?

Just because state officials aren't directly managing day to day operations does not mean that company isn't owned by the state, because in China, that company is always owned by the state.

What is this nuance you seem to be referencing but not explaining?

Post reply on HN