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Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

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Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#11

Post by throwawaylinux »

samschooler wrote: post #2

So I am actually from Edina, I don’t currently live there but my parents do. The context of this is a string of robberies and crimes not normally seen in this suburb. Edina is generally seen as a safe suburb, and all of the recent crime came on very sudden. I don’t agree with the program, but since I have some context around it, I thought I’d add to the conversation. [0]: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/12/11/edi…

What is it about the program you don't agree with, if you don't mind elaborating?

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#12

Post by jodrellblank »

alex_sf wrote: post #9

A few of the comments here seem to have not read the article. This is an opt-in program that effectively creates a map with contact info of private citizens with cameras. When something nefarious happens in a particular area, the police can reach out to the people who put themselves on the map and ask if they have footage and are willing to share it. The police already and have always done this.

> "The police have always done this"

Assuming police in the 1840s couldn't find citizens with cameras watching the street, how long is your "always"?

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_... )

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#13

Post by spoonjim »

twblalock wrote: post #6
mensetmanusman wrote: post #3

Human behavior that tends to self-imprison on a large scale is fascinating to me. In the west we see communities opting in to self surveillance 100% of the time, in China it can be literally having your door welded shut so you stay at home. It all stems from the desire to control other people’s behavior to varying degrees. This desire is probably tied to a survival trait, but more often it is to satisfy something els…

Who in this program is surveilling or imprisoning themselves? Having a camera on your house, pointed into the street, is the opposite of self-surveillance. It's a way to surveil people in a public thoroughfare. Some of those people happen to be thieves who steal things from homes and cars, and if they get caught by video surveillance, that's great. What exactly do the neighborhood residents lose by participating in t…

What do they lose? They lose if they're the people on the wrong camera at the wrong time and they get picked up for a crime they didn't commit!

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#14

Post by sneak »

opo wrote: post #8
sneak wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you let privacy rights be preserved by democracy, they will not be preserved, as the vast majority of people have: a) not much to lose from secret information being divulged b) not much secret information in the first place It is really only a tiny minority that actually practically need privacy rights: prominent people, public figures, the wealthy, highly attractive people, alternative lifestyles, political or la…

>...It is really only a tiny minority that actually practically need privacy rights Just about everyone needs privacy rights and most care about those rights for themselves. Unfortunately many are very willing to sacrifice other people's rights if they are told it will make them safer or protect the children, etc. (If someone does claim they don't care about privacy since 'they have nothing to hide', ask them for the…

> Just about everyone needs privacy rights and most care about those rights for themselves.

I don't think that's true in practice, no. Most people take the "I have nothing to hide" approach, and, sadly, the lives of most people are so uneventful that that's actually true.

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#15

Post by r2b2 »

> Minneapolis still encourages residents to register their cameras, but Merchant said that doesn't give police "blanket access. ... There has to be consent from the owner."

I'm glad a warrant-like system is the plan. Technology opens the door to many dystopias I hope we avoid.

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#16

Post by DSMan195276 »

spoonjim wrote: post #13
twblalock wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who in this program is surveilling or imprisoning themselves? Having a camera on your house, pointed into the street, is the opposite of self-surveillance. It's a way to surveil people in a public thoroughfare. Some of those people happen to be thieves who steal things from homes and cars, and if they get caught by video surveillance, that's great. What exactly do the neighborhood residents lose by participating in t…

What do they lose? They lose if they're the people on the wrong camera at the wrong time and they get picked up for a crime they didn't commit!

... So nobody should put up security cameras outside their house? That's what these are, that's it. In such a situation most people would consider security cameras a pretty good investment.

I think it's also worth considering what can happen if there aren't cameras - eye witnesses suck. What if someone (or more than one person) claims to have seen you walking by a house that got robbed, and there's no video to prove your innocence? If people are hyper-aware that crime is happening they're going to be paying extra attention, while probably still doing a very bad job of determining what's actually going on.

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#17

Post by sdenton4 »

alex_sf wrote: post #9

A few of the comments here seem to have not read the article. This is an opt-in program that effectively creates a map with contact info of private citizens with cameras. When something nefarious happens in a particular area, the police can reach out to the people who put themselves on the map and ask if they have footage and are willing to share it. The police already and have always done this.

I have a friend who has done some paralegal work on criminal cases, which has included stitching together many videos from doorbell devices to see a traumatic event from 5+ angles, or reconstruct the path of a car through a neighborhood before or after an event. The surveillance machinery is already firmly in place, and is always just a subpoena away.

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#18

Post by gfykvfyxgc »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #11
samschooler wrote: post #2

So I am actually from Edina, I don’t currently live there but my parents do. The context of this is a string of robberies and crimes not normally seen in this suburb. Edina is generally seen as a safe suburb, and all of the recent crime came on very sudden. I don’t agree with the program, but since I have some context around it, I thought I’d add to the conversation. [0]: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/12/11/edi…

What is it about the program you don't agree with, if you don't mind elaborating?

Maybe close cooperation with the deeply corrupt and unjust police makes you complicit in the outcomes.

Re: Edina Minnesota latest suburb to roll out homeowner surveillance camera program

#19

Post by throwawaylinux »

gfykvfyxgc wrote: post #18
throwawaylinux wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it about the program you don't agree with, if you don't mind elaborating?

Maybe close cooperation with the deeply corrupt and unjust police makes you complicit in the outcomes.

Maybe that is what they believe, but I'm specifically asking samschooler since they are in a unique position to comment on it.
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